Dáil debates

Tuesday, 25 October 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Northern Ireland Issues

4:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach the position regarding his contacts with political leaders from Northern Ireland since 4 October. [28461/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach the preparation he has made for the forthcoming meeting of the North South Ministerial Council. [28547/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with political leaders in Northern Ireland since the resumption of Dáil Éireann. [29742/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he has raised the issue of the need for an inquiry into the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane with the British Prime Minister, David Cameron. [29743/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach if he has had any recent contacts with the British Prime Minister, David Cameron; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [29744/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 14, inclusive, together.

I intend to visit Belfast in mid-November and a programme of engagements including meetings with political leaders is being planned. I am looking forward to the next meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council on 18 November in Armagh. All arrangements have been made. I anticipate that the meeting will review progress across the full range of areas of North-South co-operation.

At the last plenary meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council in June, we had a broad-ranging economic discussion. We stressed that it makes good practical sense to continue to explore areas where efficiencies and economies can be achieved by working together, North and South. We discussed progress made on the satellite radiotherapy unit at Altnagelvin. An update on the A5, north-west gateway to Aughnacloy and the A8, Belfast to Larne, roads projects was also provided and we agreed that a further payment of £11 million pounds sterling would be made in respect of this development. We agreed to finalise deliberations on the outstanding commitments under the St. Andrews Agreement at the forthcoming plenary meeting in November.

The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, met the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on Thursday, 6 October. The sixth meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council in institutional format was held in Stormont Castle, Belfast, on 3 October 2011. The Irish Government was represented by the Tánaiste with the Northern Ireland Executive represented by the First Minister, Peter Robinson, acting Deputy First Minister, John O'Dowd and the Minister for Regional Development, Danny Kennedy. Both jurisdictions face substantial budgetary challenges and we discussed shared economic challenges.

Sectoral meetings continue to be held between Ministers, North and South, with meetings held on 12 October on the languages body and on inland waterways, a meeting on aquaculture and marine on 14 October and a meeting on transport on 21 October.

I spoke to the Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, on 11 October in advance of his meeting with the Finucane family. The Prime Minister informed me that is was his intention to get to the truth of the matter quickly and to issue an apology to the family. This would be achieved, in his view, by the appointment by the British Government of Sir Desmond de Silva, a senior queen's counsel, to undertake a review of the case. However, I reminded the Prime Minister of the all-party motion passed by the House in 2006 which called for a full independent public inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane as had been recommended by Judge Cory. As I have said previously in this House, that position has not changed and the Government fully supports the family in its long-standing campaign.

The Government continues to maintain close contact with the Finucane family. At my request and on behalf of the Government, the Tánaiste met with the family and their legal representatives on Monday, 17 October. Discussions with the Tánaiste focused on exchanges with the Finucane family prior to their meeting with the Prime Minister and how best to progress from this juncture.

The Finucane family expressed their deep disappointment with the outcome of their meeting with the Prime Minister as it fell short of genuine expectations. They are determined to continue to seek the truth through a full independent public inquiry. The Tánaiste undertook to pursue the matter with the British Government and to engage fully with them on this issue, having assembled a comprehensive summary and assessment of events to date. My office has also maintained contact with officials in Downing Street on the matter.

Finally, I reiterate the Government's position which is quite clear and which has been communicated to the British Government - the requirement for a full inquiry to be held as set out in the 2006 all-party motion adopted by Dáil Éireann and as expected by the Finucane family and the international community. I reiterated that view to the Prime Minister in a brief conversation at the EU Council meeting on Sunday.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind Members there are 13 minutes remaining to deal with five questions.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked about the position regarding the Taoiseach's contacts with political leaders from Northern Ireland since 4 October. I take it from his reply there have been no contacts with political leaders since 4 October. Will the Taoiseach agree that nothing can be taken for granted regarding the situation in Northern Ireland? Have meetings or contacts been deferred until after the presidential election in order to give the First Minister a chance to return to the day job? Is this the reason there have been no contacts? In my view it is important to maintain contacts with political leaders. It is not just enough to have the institutions established as a result of the Good Friday Agreement; it is important that politicians deliver for the people. Will the Taoiseach comment on a view that it is not the case that the Northern Ireland Executive is working very well and effectively and that over recent years it could have worked much more effectively, particularly from the socio-economic point of view?

I refer to the Finucane case and the inquiry. The Taoiseach stated he reminded the British Prime Minister of the Finucane case. Will he agree that there has been a breach of a solemn agreement between the two Governments as regards the holding of an independent inquiry into the Finucane case? Will he agree that the British position adopted regarding the appointment of a QC to investigate the murder represents a breach of an agreed position between the two Governments and a solemn agreement between the two Governments? Has the Taoiseach put this point in such language to the British Prime Minister?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There was not any particular reason for not visiting Northern Ireland since October. The visit is planned for November and I hope to undertake a number of engagements. I appreciate the Deputy's comment in respect of the effective working of the Assembly.

I spoke with the Prime Minister by telephone when he was to meet with the Finucane family. His view was he wanted to get at the truth and to issue an apology to the Finucane family. He said that his preferred method now was to appoint a QC. I reminded him in that telephone conversation that this House had passed a unanimous motion calling for a full public inquiry in the Finucane case and that this was still our view. I said that unless the Finucane family were happy with what was being offered, that remained our view. I reminded him of this view on Sunday in a brief conversation with him.

It is true that following the recommendations of Judge Cory that there should be inquiries into certain matters, this House followed through by establishing the Smithwick inquiry. It remains my view that the same should apply in the case of Pat Finucane, unless the family were to agree otherwise. They do not so agree so there is no change in the position of this House or of the Government in regard to having a full public inquiry into the death of Pat Finucane.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I wish to take issue with the manner in which the Taoiseach has grouped these questions together. Leaving everything else aside, the issue of the Pat Finucane inquiry should have been dealt with separately. We do not have much time so I will not ask supplementary questions about the other questions but instead concentrate on the issue of Pat Finucane.

There was an agreement between the two Governments at Weston Park and it is called the Weston Park Agreement. The British Government has now broken that agreement. I welcome the fact the Taoiseach raised the issue of Pat Finucane's killing with Mr. Cameron on Sunday. That is good. However, if I understand properly what the Taoiseach told us previously, when he talked to the British Prime Minister on the day he was to meet with the Finucane family, it was the Prime Minister who telephoned the Taoiseach. Was that the first time the British Government told the Taoiseach - just an hour or two before it met the family - that it was not going to go ahead with an inquiry? What about all the contact between the officials, the Tánaiste and the British at Downing Street?

The last time the Taoiseach spoke about this was when the British Queen was here. While I accept entirely that the Taoiseach supports the family, this is a case on which the Government must be very proactive. With respect, I know how this works. I know how the British work and I know how the Government works. The Taoiseach must take this as a personal mission. Sometimes there is a lot of talk here about the North and sometimes the Taoiseach speaks about things he knows better. However, this is an issue he, as Taoiseach, needs to take on as a personal mission. He must say to Mr. Cameron that this is an agreement between two sovereign governments and that we want him to honour it. Even if there had not been a Dáil motion or any of the other issues involved, he must point out to Mr. Cameron that this is an agreement between two sovereign governments and that he is in breach of it. The Taoiseach needs to catch his attention. We will support him in whatever he does on this issue. It is not an issue on which to be passive, but one on which the Taoiseach must be proactive.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The situation is very clear. Judge Cory recommended a public inquiry into this. The British Government, for its part, has made it clear on a number of occasions that it does not want to go down a road of endless public inquiries into so many incidents-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It agreed to this. I was there.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not speak for the British Government. It has made it clear that it does not want to go down the road of endless public inquiries. I raise this issue on any opportunity I get with the British Prime Minister. I did not hear of the British Government's decision until the message came through to my office that the Prime Minister wanted to talk to me. I left a Cabinet meeting to take that call and spoke to him. I reminded him, during that conversation, that if what he was offering was not acceptable to the Finucane family, I would not agree to it. I reminded him the Smithwick tribunal was set up following the same recommendation from Judge Cory and that there was unanimous approval and endorsement of a motion from this House that there should be a public inquiry. We have been very clear about that and will continue to state that view.

I cannot stop the British Government appointing Mr. Da Silva QC to look at the million pieces of paper on this issue. I do not know whether he will come across something among those pieces of paper that may point to a real truth. I cannot say that. Obviously, my preference is for a public inquiry as was agreed between the two countries and as was recommended by Judge Cory.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It strikes me, from what the Taoiseach has said - I am not being partisan about this - that he did not remind the British Prime Minister that this inquiry was a solemn commitment from the two governments. That is the flaw on how this case should be advanced. I know the Taoiseach is extremely busy, but I believe he should meet the Finucane family. The family was expecting to meet him and the Tánaiste, but that did not happen. This has been going on for 23 years and the Taoiseach, as leader of the Government, needs to make it a personal mission. I urge him to make a commitment here today that he will make it a personal commitment. The way to come at it tactically and strategically is that it is part of a solemn agreement made at Weston Park between two governments and that he expects the British Government to keep to that.

There is no point in the British Prime Minister phoning the Taoiseach an hour or two before he meets the family and saying he is sorry, but he has changed this and for the Taoiseach to say that goes against the Dáil and that there is all-party support for it. It was a solemn agreement between the Government here and the British Government. It was not up to the British Government to go off on a solo run. It should have been kept to the commitment it made.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that central to this are Geraldine Finucane and her family and their quest for the truth of what exactly happened in respect of the murder of her husband. Were she to come here and say to me that she would be happy with a QC being appointed to examine all of these papers, she, as the person central to this-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach knows she would not do that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree and I said to the British Prime Minister, that if Geraldine Finucane, on behalf or her family, was not happy with what he was offering, there would be no change in the position here.

I met Ms Finucane in Washington when I was there in March. It was not possible for me to be at the meeting with the Tánaiste and the Finucane family here. The Tánaiste had come back from Korea, I think, and I was somewhere else. I have no difficulty with arranging another meeting with Geraldine Finucane and perhaps I can do that when I have the opportunity to go to Northern Ireland in November, or I can make an alternative arrangement for here or somewhere else. I take the Deputy's point about the Weston Park agreement. As I said, there is no change in our position here. I would like to see a public inquiry in the case of the murder of Pat Finucane and I will take the opportunity on every occasion I meet with the British Prime Minister to remind him of the position and how important it is in dealing with this to get at the truth and to have it dealt with conclusively.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked earlier whether the Taoiseach would agree that the action of the British Government in appointing a QC to investigate the murder of Pat Finucane was in itself a breach of a sovereign agreement between two governments which was arrived at solemnly at Weston Park. Does the Taoiseach accept it represents a breach of that agreement?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In so far as it does not comply with the recommendation of Judge Cory - who was given the documentation to recommend that an inquiry should be carried out in a number of cases - that he felt an inquiry should be carried out and there was agreement that should happen. It is not happening in the case of Pat Finucane and from that point of view it does not live up to the agreement made. Written Answers follow Adjournment.