Dáil debates

Tuesday, 18 October 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Interdepartmental Committees

3:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will detail the inter-departmental groups, including Cabinet committees, which his advisors are entitled to attend. [24733/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the committees he has established or which operate under his control which do not carry the status of a Cabinet committee. [26098/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he will detail the specific EU coordination committees under the administrative control of his Department. [28462/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 4, inclusive, together.

My advisers are not prevented from attending meetings of any interdepartmental groups. My special advisers may attend Cabinet committee meetings in an advisory capacity when required to do so and with my prior approval. Attendance by special advisers is kept to the minimum consistent with the efficient functioning of the committees concerned.

Other than Cabinet committees, the following interdepartmental groups are chaired and supported by my Department, namely, the senior officials' group on social policy, the senior officials' group on health and the senior officials' group on climate change and the green economy. In respect of the economy, my Department chairs and supports the senior officials' group on labour market issues, the senior officials' group on economic recovery and jobs and the senior officials' group on economic infrastructure.

As for European Union co-ordination committees, the senior officials' group on European affairs is chaired by the second Secretary General in my Department with responsibility for European Union co-ordination. The interdepartmental co-ordinating committee on European affairs is chaired by the Minister of State for European affairs and the interdepartmental committee co-ordinating the Presidency is also chaired by that Minister of State.

4:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Taoiseach for his response. As these three questions in effect relate to three different issues, I will try to take them separately. However, I wish to put an overall point to the Taoiseach. Does he agree it continues to be the case that the new structure of the Taoiseach's office makes it less subject to parliamentary scrutiny now than at any time in its history? The Taoiseach may recall that during the election campaign and in the programme for Government, people were promised a radically smaller Department, which would be like a Cabinet office. Instead, what exists at present is a Department that is exactly the same size as its predecessor, which is taking more control of issues but which has been given the cloak of confidentiality. The economic division, which preceded the economic management council, was subject to parliamentary questions. However, it now is gone and has been superseded by the economic management council, which is shielded from all questions about its work. Will the Taoiseach consider ways to enable Members to table questions in respect of the work of the economic management council?

As for European Union co-ordination, since the European Union unit of the Department of Foreign Affairs was transferred to his Department, the Taoiseach has refused to answer basic questions on matters such as, for example, his role in the 2013 European Union Presidency.

I want to ascertain whether the Taoiseach is in charge of EU policy, given that a large section has moved into the Department.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The position is well known to the Deputy from his experience over the years. The confidentiality of discussions at Cabinet and Cabinet committees is protected by Article 20.4.3°. In light of that, those matters that are discussed there are subject to Cabinet confidentiality. In reality if decisions are taken by the economic management council, they go forward to Government and become Government decisions if they are adopted by the Cabinet and are then available for discussion and question. It is a way of streamlining the activity of Government and Cabinet.

From my perspective, as Taoiseach, I have found that many Cabinet committees were only required to meet once a quarter. I have a very different view about this. I see part of my job being to drive the agenda through the committees to get results and get decisions through by Government, which is what is important. The function of the interdepartmental co-ordinating committee on European affairs, chaired by the Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, is to make arrangements of Ireland's Presidency of the Union for the first half of 2013.

The Deputy will be aware of the changed nature of the role of political leaders arising from the Lisbon treaty whereby Mr. Van Rompuy has a new function in driving the agenda. The nature of the role of European Union leaders has changed in respect of the onus on them during a Presidency. That is not to diminish in any way the decisions that need to be taken or whatever else. The Minister of State, Deputy Creighton, is now chairing the committee in preparation for the 2013 Presidency. The co-ordination of European activities is conducted by the second Secretary General in the Department of the Taoiseach. In so far as the duties and responsibility of the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade are concerned, on European affairs or on a General Affairs Council, she reports to him and conducts the management of the economic management committee. The co-ordination of European issues is also under her control but in the Department of the Taoiseach - in other words, to get a better impact from all the Departments associated with this. From my perspective, it functions very well in that there is a more closely knit group in terms of how one looks at European issues, approaches and get the best impact from all Departments' senior officials and Ministers involved in whatever European issue might be under discussion.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why will the Taoiseach not answer questions about the EU Presidency? He still transfers even the most basic EU questions to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. It was always the precedent in the House that the Taoiseach would answer questions on his or her role in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The last time we discussed this, the Taoiseach said it might be down to the wording of the questions and he suggested a wording. We put in the wording he suggested and it still got transferred. I believe there is a tactic with someone in the Taoiseach's office or elsewhere trying to shut down the areas on which we can question the Taoiseach. It is shutting down and restricting the role of Parliament as a forum to ask the Taoiseach basic and fundamental questions about his role in the EU, particularly the preparation for the EU Presidency, on which he should be willing to answer to the House during questions to the Taoiseach. I have noticed an ongoing pattern of consistently restricting the area on which we can ask the Taoiseach questions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware we introduced a change whereby before Council meetings and before Heads of Government meetings, there is a debate in the Dáil, giving people the opportunity, as they had last week, and again when the meetings are over.

The co-ordination of European matters rests in the Department of the Taoiseach and is conducted by the recently appointed second Secretary General. The Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade has responsibility for the GAC and works with the Minister of State in respect of those meetings. In so far as the 2013 Presidency is concerned - assuming that the Lord spares us - obviously the duties of the Leader of Government are set out in the changed context of the Lisbon treaty in what leaders have to do during a Presidency. It still places a great onus on all Ministers as the Deputy is aware given his experience of a Presidency, which, in the way it was constructed, demanded more time and meetings from every Minister of the Government of which the Deputy was a member.

The Minister of State is chairing the preparations for the Presidency. In so far as asking questions about the responsibilities that will belong to the Taoiseach during that Presidency in the first half of 2013, I do not have any difficulty in attempting to define what they are for the Deputy at this stage. I may be able to help him in terms of particular issues he wants answered by the Department of the Taoiseach or myself in so far as Europe is concerned, but they need to be within those categories. The Tánaiste has specific responsibility in this regard as has the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs. As Taoiseach in charge of the overall co-ordination of European issues, I obviously have responsibility there and will have when the Presidency comes around in 2013. I might be able to help the Deputy there.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is the Leader of the Government and one would expect he would want to put his stamp on an EU Presidency in terms of the themes of the Presidency and what he wants the Presidency to be about, albeit in changed circumstances administratively and co-ordination wise. They are issues that fall due to be discussed in a session such as this and to facilitate questions to inform that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not have any difficulty with having a discussion at the appropriate time here in the House.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I should be allowed to table questions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not mind. As business goes through, it may be Ireland's lot to have to decide finally on Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, reform, which will be of significant interest to the Irish agricultural sector and pose a range of difficulties in areas such as single farm payments, climate change, emissions etc. As the business moves through and as there is a failure to agree on serious business ends, these may well pile up and require to be dealt with during the Irish Presidency. Perhaps we can discuss those in the next round of questions on Europe. I would be happy to give the Deputy a clearer perspective on what might-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Why are questions to the Taoiseach always transferred to other Departments?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should put it down to me as Taoiseach.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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However, they are being transferred every time we do it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have defined the responsibilities of the Tánaiste, the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs and me, as Taoiseach, overseeing the overall co-ordination of European issues. I do that to have a tighter and more cohesive approach to European issues so that it is not scattered across Departments. They are all called together in the Department of the Taoiseach to give a better impact in terms of the focus on whatever the issue might be. In so far as the Presidency is concerned I would be happy to give the Deputy a best shot at what might fall due to be decided during the Irish Presidency in 2013.