Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Question 44: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his priorities in respect of public sector reform; the progress that has been made; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28868/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As outlined in the programme for Government, the Government is committed to the most ambitious programme of public service reform since the foundation of the State. This programme will take place in tandem with an equally significant programme of constitutional, political and institutional reform to ensure there is a fundamental change in democratic and public governance and a dramatic change in the cost efficiency and methods of delivery of public services. The cost of delivering public services must be reduced further, with fewer staff and tighter budgets, while it becomes better integrated and more customer-focused, as well as being leaner and more efficient.

Implementation of this reform programme is a priority for the Government and detailed implementation plans are being developed which encompass the commitments to public service reform in the programme for Government and priority areas from the existing transforming public services programme. The issues to be addressed in the reform programme will, of course, also be informed by the comprehensive review of expenditure across all Departments.

The implementation plans will be presented to the Cabinet sub-committee on public service reform in the coming weeks and will set out the priority actions and timelines for reform in a broad range of areas. There will be a focus on actions to improve performance by organisations and individuals, to ensure greater efficiency, effectiveness and economy and ensure flexibility in the deployment of people and resources. Specific priority areas will include e-Government, shared services, public procurement, business process improvement and financial management. Several actions are already under way in these areas.

My Department has been given a clear mandate to drive and enable public service reform. The focus now is on the key reforms required and how and in what sequence they will be implemented. Over the past two months, my officials have been meeting with all Departments and major State offices to discuss priorities and challenges in the reform programme.

A reform and delivery office is being established in my Department to facilitate, drive and support the reform programme. Last week, I announced the appointment of the programme director of this office. He and his office will work closely with organisations across the public service, enabling them to deliver reform at a local level, as well as leading on key cross-cutting reform initiatives.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I have known the Minister for a number of years and he is not a man for grandstanding. He gives honest and open answers and I wish him well in his public service reforms.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I am not here to attack public servants but I must express my frustration, concerns and, at this stage, rage at the bureaucracy of State that has emerged. It has become a massive runaway train on a track that we cannot seem to derail. I am glad the Minister has indicated he will be publishing his plans to reform the public sector.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Senior public servants seemed to have had the ear of the previous Government in this area. I hope this Government will not be hoodwinked by them this time. Will the Minister outline how the reforms will be put in place?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I thank the Deputy for his good wishes. It is a daunting task. We are trying to reform a system that has built like Topsy since the 1920s. One of the most daunting aspects of the task is that there is no integration within the public service. Our ambition is to create an integrated public service with common pension and salary schemes and to rationalise various working hours. Some agencies and individuals have different working hours from others. During the summer, we saw surprising holiday arrangements for county managers. All of this work needs to be done, but changing it arbitrarily would be difficult. We are working within the confines of the Croke Park agreement to make radical change while holding the system together.

That we have set up a Department is the most important measure. We have a Minister charged with reform and an office of reform in the political and public service spheres. In the coming years, I hope we will see significant change in the way the public service is structured and delivers its services.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I wish the Minister well. I was so enraged by the budget before last. One of my biggest rows with the late Brian Lenihan, with whom I was good friends, came from when he went back on his decision to apply the pension levy to senior public servants. I now know why he did it - they had his ear. No one else in the country got away with it. An outrageous decision, it undermined the entire process.

The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, has set up an implementation group to oversee the amalgamation of my county's local authorities. The Minister, Deputy Howlin, can stop his colleague from appointing two former senior civil servants to the board. They retired on good packages. They have no contracts anymore, so the Government has no obligation under the unions or so on. Stomp out this gravy train. They have had enough. Why should they be on the board? Some of them were anti-local authority, although I will not cast aspersions. Why should we go back to that pool? The gravy pot is being stirred. It must be broken at the bottom to let the gravy run out.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am afraid the matter of the group overseeing the amalgamation is outside my area of-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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It is not.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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-----responsibility, but I will pass on-----

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Please.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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-----the Deputy's profoundly felt views to the Minister, Deputy Hogan.

Peter Mathews (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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His exasperation.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Question 45: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform his priorities in terms of protecting frontline services; the mechanisms he will put in place to ensure that key staff are retained in the provision of these services in view of the expected reduction in public service numbers in the months ahead; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [28655/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Ireland is committed under the EU-IMF programme to reducing the overall public service wage bill. Delivering this reduction will require continued implementation of the moratorium on recruitment with exceptions being limited to essential posts only and the utilisation of redeployment as the primary mechanism to fill posts that have been approved.

In order to protect front line services, the Government is committed to making fundamental changes to the way the public service operates. To protect crucial services, exceptions to the moratorium may be granted on the following bases - statutory posts that must be filled for legal reasons; where failure to fill posts would result in a breach of EU-international obligations and impact upon exports and so on; safety related posts where a failure to fill them could leave the State open to potential legal liabilities; specialist-technical posts to ensure the continuation of essential operations, for example, legal officers, laboratory staff, certain marine staff and so on; and to ensure continuity of front line services. In the cases of the education and health sectors, a number of grades are exempt from the moratorium to ensure that vital services are maintained.

All Departments and agencies must deliver better value to the public to reduce the deficit and protect front line services. In recent years, enhanced numbers monitoring systems and multi-annual employment frameworks have been put in place. These arrangements will be strengthened to ensure that effect is given to Government decisions on public sector numbers and will aid public bodies in planning future staffing levels.

It is a part of the day-to-day function of the boards and management of all State bodies to assess, budget and plan for current and ongoing staffing requirements, including the identifying of key posts. However, it remains a matter for local agency and parent Department management to decide on operational priorities within the framework of Government policy and the resources available to us.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his general response, but I wish to raise this issue because specific staff will be leaving. I am concerned about the health sector. Doctors are exempt, but nurses who take early retirement are not an exempt grade under the moratorium. Does the Department have a mechanism in place to ensure that, if an inordinate number of nurses decide to take early retirement, clerical officers cannot be redeployed to be nurses the following Monday morning? It is the same with special needs assistants and resource teachers. I note the Minister will continue to employ teachers. They are exempt and that is fair enough. Those who provide home help are not exempt and they cannot be recruited because of the moratorium. Will the Minister be able to do something if an inordinate number of gardaí wish to retire?

Will the Minister and the Irish public be victims of a voluntary scheme with no management? No company would allow a situation whereby all staff could walk out the door if they felt like it. Regarding nurses and gardaí, surely, in addition to the key posts mentioned by the Minister there is a mechanism to prevent a major crisis in front line services if an inordinate number of them volunteer for redundancy.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Deputy Fleming has raised a number of important issues to which we must have regard. To put it in context, we are committed to downsizing the public service. There is no gainsaying this. The previous Government, supported by Deputy Fleming, signed up to a programme of reduction and we have put in place an enhanced production profile because, to be blunt, there is a €500 million gap in the public sector pay figures with which the previous Government left us - thank you very much - which must be found through policy changes.

We have set an ambitious target of public sector number reductions. There is no early retirement package except for a small one at Coillte which I have approved. It is not as if everybody can walk out the door. Naturally, anybody can retire or resign from any position but only people who are close to retirement will feel they might want to avail of the window of opportunity available to the end of February to retire on the post-cuts pension scheme. We will have to monitor it very carefully, which is why I require people to give three months notice of their intention to retire so managers can plan for gaps that can be identified in the system. Under the Croke Park agreement we can move people up to 40 km. If key gaps emerge we will need another strategy to deal with them. We are determined to address it.

Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am pleased the Minister has the flexibility under the Croke Park agreement, on which his party refused to have a view until we implemented it. When I speak about "early retirement packages" I use the phrase in general layman's language. People understand there is a benefit for going early. It might not be the technical name of the package but people understand it is better to go sooner rather than later.

To return to my basic question on nurses, I ask the Minister to consider the situation whereby an inordinate number of applications are received by the Minister. He stated he will have early notification which will provide him with an opportunity to move staff up to 40 km. How many nurses have already moved under the Croke Park arrangements?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I would have to be asked a specific question on this as I do not have in my head the number of nurses who have moved under the Croke Park agreement. It is the framework and I have stated from the beginning the Government will live up to its side of it, the main features of this being no future wage cuts or compulsory redundancies, but on the other side is flexibility, including the ability to move up to 40 km to fill gaps that are created. We will have to have great flexibility to implement the significant downsizing of the public service in the coming years and the other implications of the comprehensive review of expenditure when they are rolled out in the budget.