Dáil debates

Wednesday, 5 October 2011

Priority Questions

National Asset Management Agency

1:00 pm

Photo of Tom FlemingTom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Finance the nature and content of contracts for or employment which the National Assets Management Agency has given to individual developers to run their former companies which are now in NAMA; the remuneration details of every developer currently in receipt of such remuneration; and if details will be published on the NAMA website. [27799/11]

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The National Asset Management Agency, NAMA, has been established as a body corporate which is required to carry out its functions in a commercial manner. In this regard, it must consider on a case-by-case basis the overhead costs associated with leaving a debtor in place to manage his or her business at an agreed salary level versus the alternative of appointing an insolvency expert. I am advised by NAMA that when it decides that the better option for the taxpayer is to leave the debtor in charge of his or her business, it sets a limit for the overheads in the company or business and that this cap must cover all costs, including the debtor's own salary. NAMA takes a large number of factors into account before approving the overhead allocation for any debtor to operate the business. These include the debtor's knowledge of the assets, the overall value of the assets, his or her experience, NAMA's view of the extent to which he or she can add value and his or her level of co-operation with NAMA, including, where applicable, voluntary reversal of asset transfers and the pledging of unencumbered assets.

I understand from NAMA that, as part of its business plan agreements with debtors, it normally looks for and obtains a reduction of 50% to 75% in overhead costs and that any remuneration paid to debtors is payable from this much reduced budget. The chairman of NAMA has recently stated the majority of debtor remuneration packages fall into the €75,000 to €100,000 range, including all benefits-in-kind. I understand in two cases the debtors' remuneration package, authorised by NAMA as part of the budget for overheads, exceeds €100,000 and that the highest is in the order of €200,000.

The terms and conditions under which debtors work with NAMA constitute commercially sensitive, confidential information. I am informed that, under sections 99 and 202 of the Act, it cannot disclose the names of or details relating to individual debtors because companies and individuals whose loans have transferred to NAMA and who are meeting their obligations are entitled to have this information kept confidential.

Photo of Tom FlemingTom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
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I firmly believe the figures given by the Minister, ranging from €75,000 to €200,000, for remuneration are exorbitant, given the state of the country, particularly as these are confidential contracts. Nobody should have the right to enter into such arrangements. The people concerned broke the country and are now being paid by the State and taxpayers. We do not want to see a repeat of the recklessness of the past decade, the past five or six years in particular. Everything should be above board and transparent. NAMA has no right to deal with the people concerned in such a manner.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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May we have a question, please?

Photo of Tom FlemingTom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
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The Minister spoke about the confidentiality aspect, but such issues should not be removed from the view of the general public. I ask that such details be put on the NAMA website because of the seriousness of the matter. Will the Minister specify if there are incentives to reach certain targets for the people concerned, including potential contractual incentives? If the elements in NAMA return to profit, will they be sold to the people concerned at lower prices?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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Many people would share the Deputy's views and concerns. However, NAMA had to make a pragmatic business decision on this. The alternative is to get in experts on credit to run the business, and we have experience of those already with NAMA assets that have gone into receivership. The receivers are a fine body of people but they charge €180 per hour. That amount over the year is far higher than the cost of the developer, who knows the assets, running the system under strict controls. Again, the range of salaries is between €75,000 and €100,000. There are two salaries above that; one is between €100,000 and €200,000 and one is €200,000. They manage billions of euro worth of assets and run them in a very tight situation. A business plan must be agreed first and there is a great deal of negotiation whereby assets that are transferred out of the control of the company must be restored and so forth.

I am satisfied in general that what NAMA is doing at present is appropriate but it must be constantly under review. Where developers have broken the terms of their business plans, the arrangement has ceased and some of those companies have gone into receivership.

Photo of Tom FlemingTom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
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I thank the Minister for his response. There should be far more accountability on this. NAMA should be answerable to the Minister and all these matters should be vetted. The people who are funding this, the general public, are entitled to know the status of these and the names and details involved. I ask the Minister to reconsider that.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am advised that much of the information the Deputy wishes the public to have is commercially sensitive. There is a prohibition under the National Asset Management Agency Act, which was sponsored by my predecessor and passed by the Oireachtas, which prevents this information being given.