Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Last week a completely different version of NewERA was announced. We have now learned this new version of NewERA, with the strategic investment fund, will be established as a branch of the National Treasury Management Agency on a non-statutory basis. I suggest to the Taoiseach that this represents a fundamental breach of a clear promise given by his party prior to the general election. In 2009 his initial promise concerned the creation of more than 105,000 jobs over four years to be financed by the sale of State assets plus up to €7 billion from the National Pension Reserve Fund. I acknowledge that shortly afterwards the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, dismissed the jobs mentioned in the plan as "a public relations add-on". The then Labour Party spokesperson, the Minister for Social Protection, Deputy Burton, went further in describing it as having ten quangos and said it had been dreamed up by someone in the PR office of Fine Gael. However, the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Coveney, launched it with great solemnity and it was pushed very strongly during the general election campaign.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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It is happening.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are now looking at a totally different NewERA - basically, a senior executive, notably appointed without any interview being held or without the position being opened up to outside competition to take control of strategic State assets. More fundamental is the change in approach to key strategic assets and State companies such as the ESB, Bord na Móna, Coillte, Bord Gáis Éireann and EirGrid. The focus will change to being on a short-term financial return as opposed to the long-term strategic interest of the State which will become secondary.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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May we have the Deputy's question, please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It could, for example, lead to serious underinvestment in the energy grid. Tremendous investment is taking place as a result of the efforts of State companies. Does the Taoiseach agree that this fundamental change in approach to strategic State assets is flawed?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, I do not. As the Deputy is aware, the Ministers for Public Expenditure and Reform and Finance announced the establishment of NewERA and the appointment of Dr. Eileen Fitzpatrick as its director. It is true that NewERA was the subject of a fundamental commitment given in the programme for Government and the relevant Ministers have been working very hard to set that programme in place and begin the process of making Ireland more competitive and a country in which more jobs are created. The Government made the decision to establish NewERA quickly and on the basis of it being non-statutory. It is not a new quango like the ones we used to have for years. It is part of the NTMA which has done a very good job.

As the Deputy is aware, NewERA has been given a fundamental responsibility by the Government in the context of looking at propositions the Government is considering for the disposal of State assets. The Deputy is also aware that the programme for Government commits the Government to the sale of €2 billion worth of assets over the period of the programme. The McCarthy list was well in excess of that figure and it is well known that the troika will look for substantially more than it. NewERA and Dr. Fitzpatrick have been given responsibility for the accurate evaluation of the value of assets, the economic impact and the timelines involved. NewERA will report to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform and the Government will make its decision, with the line Minister involved if, for example, it related to any of the semi-State assets the Government considered it was appropriate to sell.

I do not accept this represents any downgrading of the position. NewERA is a branch of the NTMA and managed and advised largely by NTMA personnel who are all exceptionally well qualified. This is not a new costly quango which is being set up to deal with this issue. The Deputy has a habit of harking back to before the general election. He talks about individual party programmes. I accept parties are entitled to have individual perspectives on how they see the future-----

Michael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Blame each other so.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The record shows that some of the comments the Deputy mentioned were made, but we are now talking about the programme for Government and how Government assesses it. We have set up NewERA within the NTMA with a particular responsibility. Dr. Fitzpatrick is eminently qualified to carry out this task and I have no doubt she will do an outstanding job.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I note the comment that individual parties have individual party programmes in advance of elections. However, to put it another way, the Taoiseach seems to be suggesting we should ignore what any political party states or does before an election.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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One in particular.

A Deputy:

The Deputy has a degree in it.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He has a PhD in it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is confirming that the NewERA originally announced with great fanfare bears no relationship to what was announced two weeks ago. I have spoken to many in the investment world and people with experience of State companies-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Our experience was gained in talking to investors, in driving the economy.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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All of them are emphatic that this is not the time to sell strategic State assets.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy ask a supplementary question, please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is certainly not the time to sell strategic State assets. It was in a memo the Taoiseach has told us he renegotiated with the IMF and the EU that has led to a commitment to sell strategic State assets to the tune of €2 billion. In terms of the ESB, I put it to the Taoiseach-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could I have your question please?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to ask a question on a matter raised.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are not entitled to make a statement.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I most certainly am.

Jerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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He is looking to the media for affirmation.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is a supplementary question in which you have one minute, yet you are 11 seconds over that time already. Please get on with it.

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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His time is up.

James Bannon (Longford-Westmeath, Fine Gael)
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Phone a friend.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will handle this myself, without the help of Deputies. Will you please ask a question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to make a point of order.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You cannot do that. You know as well as I do you are not in accordance with standing orders. This is a supplementary question to a leader's question. You are now nearly a minute over your time.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have a minute to raise a supplementary question.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are over it now. You will not make statements.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have a minute to raise a supplementary question on a matter raised under standing orders. You know that and I know it, and that is what I am trying to do.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will you please put your question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am making a simple point in respect of the sale of State assets, especially in respect of the ESB, that what we are getting here is a fundamental breach of a commitment and a cynical breach of promises, but of more importance to the public interest, a fundamental shift and change in approach to strategic State assets-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could I have your question?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----without any debate, without any clarity and without any advertisements to external interests.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there a question?

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Ní raibh aon ceist ann.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Deputy's party signed away the country and not just the State assets.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No we did not.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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They signed away the country and the Deputy is no position to lecture anyone on economics.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy and his party welched on those who supported them.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will Deputies please settle down?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The NewERA concept was always about the opportunities that presented themselves to sell State assets that were not necessary for strategic State ownership, and to use the resources of those sales for investment in infrastructure and the creation of jobs. When the NewERA concept was launched, the extent of money in the National Pension Reserve Fund was somewhat different than it is now, and it is necessary to spend considerable sums of money from the National Pension Reserve Fund to finance banks as a result of what had gone on previously and what had been allowed to go on. The Deputy might reflect on that.

The Government has no intention to rush out to sell State assets. We have made it perfectly clear that in the programme for Government, the opportunity in that programme is to achieve a sale of assets to the value of €2 billion. To do that, the Government will consider which assets are not strategic. We will focus on a number of those and NewERA will carry out the evaluation of that in consultation with all of those concerned-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----the time lines that might be involved, the economic impact and so on, and this will go back to the Government and we will reflect on that.

Nobody in the Government has ever said that there will be a fire sale of State assets. These are always to be done at the appropriate time, when the Government considers it prudent to do so.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is moving to a shareholder basis. That is a fundamental shift.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In accordance with the memorandum of understanding, it will be necessary to negotiate with the troika on the amount of funds raised from the sale of any State asset which can be used for infrastructure, job creation and job initiatives, as distinct from throwing it into debt reduction.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you, Taoiseach.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is a very clear process and it is directed now by Dr. Eileen Fitzpatrick, who is very eminently qualified. I have no doubt she will do an outstanding job.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are overtime, thank you.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what the Government signed up to.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The last Government signed up to it.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We did not. There is nothing in the original agreement like that. This Government signed up to it. The Deputies should look at the April document.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In its own way and in its own time, the Government will be back before the House to discuss any of those decisions.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Thank you. I call on Deputy Adams, without interruption.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Sular tháinig an Taoiseach in oifig, dúirt sé go raibh othair ag fáil báis ar liostaí feithimh do na hospidéil. Dúirt an Tánaiste ag an am céanna nach raibh an HSE ag obair. Bhí an ceart ag an Taoiseach agus ag an Tánaiste ag an am ach cad a tharla ó shin? Sin í an cheist mhór.

On Monday, Councillor Imelda Munster and I went to the hospital in Drogheda. There were 53 patients on trolleys, some of whom had been there for five days. In the first six months of this year, there were 3,266 patients on trolleys, on chairs and sometimes on the floor. These are not just statistics. These are family members, neighbours and friends. They are also citizens. One man told me he waited on Saturday for eight hours to see a doctor. On Monday, he was still on a trolley and he was not complaining. He said there were others waiting who were worse off.

All of this is happening before winter comes. The staff are doing heroic work, but this needs the Taoiseach's urgent intervention. I have two suggestions for him. First, he should re-open medical ward No.3 in Louth County Hospital to take the clinically discharged patients from Drogheda. Second, he should give a firm commitment today not to close the emergency Department at Our Lady's Hospital, Navan.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams is well aware that the restructuring of health services is one of the fundamental priorities of the Government. That is not an easy task. I have been at a number of hospitals recently, speaking to nurses, patients and other personnel working on the front line. I know exactly what the Deputy is talking about. I have been to Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda over the years on many occasions and people working on the front line there have always told me about the pressure due to the throughput in that hospital. The Deputy is well aware of that, as one of the Deputies up there.

The Minister for Health has set up a special delivery unit which has carried out an assessment of the situation as of October 2011, and the number of patients on waiting lists and on trolleys is greater than we would like at this stage. The special delivery unit has now made recommendations to hospital management on things they can do now which will have an impact on the situation.

HIQA received a letter last Friday about the emergency department at Drogheda and it will respond to the authors of that letter on the issues raised. The authority is engaging at the moment with the HSE north east on quality and safety issues, and its officials will soon discuss concerns raised about the emergency department with the HSE through this process. Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Drogheda is currently implementing a two-pronged approach to the management of overcrowding in the emergency department. First, it is working closely with the recently established special delivery unit to achieve capacity planning throughout the hospital, to make the best of the facilities there. Second, it is actively engaged in the implementation of the HSE's national clinical care programmes, which will focus on extending the hospital's acute medical assessment unit facility.

The Minister for Health is quite well aware of the concerns the Deputy has raised here, which apply in many hospitals. That is why the special delivery unit was set up; to make an immediate impact on the recommendations it has made. I hope that the management in hospitals will react positively to suggestions that can happen now. However, there is a much bigger question of shifting the structure of the delivery of health services nationally, and that will not happen between now and the end of the year.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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One of the problems with Leaders' Questions is that the Taoiseach ignores the question. He referred to the letter to HIQA. An Teachta Peadar Tóibín and I wrote that letter. It is our letter. We wrote to HIQA, asking for a full investigation, and to Lourdes-----

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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What about strikes in Northern Ireland?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Deputy to continue. What was in your corn flakes this morning? Please allow the Deputy to put his question.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What is particularly offensive is that Labour Party Deputies heckle when a Deputy raises a question about 3,266 citizens who cannot get a hospital bed.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I ask the Taoiseach to respond to the two suggestions I put to him which he ignored. When we raised these issues in June, during another crisis in the health system, he announced the establishment of a sub-committee on health at Cabinet level. Having failed to meet for the past four months, the sub-committee will have its first meeting today.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The crux of the current difficulty is the reconfiguration of services in the region and the failure to address the fair deal debacle created by the Minister for Health. The Taoiseach should intervene directly and open a vacant ward up the road in Dundalk to take in those patients who have been clinically discharged from the hospital in Drogheda. I ask him to respond to my proposals.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We have changed the pattern of doing business in the House. Deputies now have an opportunity to raise a specific issue, on which they will receive specific detail from the Minister for Health. Long before Deputy Adams's time in the House, the reconfiguration of the health structure in the north east between Cavan, Monaghan, Navan, Dundalk and Drogheda hospitals was an ongoing issue.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Fine Gael Party opposed it tooth and nail.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We even had announcements where one hospital vied with another for the building and creation of a brand new regional entity. These were followed swiftly by someone saying there was not one red cent available to build the entity. The reconfiguration of health services in the north east is a critical issue, the effect of which does not benefit patients who are sitting on trolleys today. What we must do now is have these patients treated as quickly, efficiently and professionally as we can. That is the reason the special delivery unit which only carried out its assessment in the past couple of weeks has made recommendations to hospital management on steps it can take to benefit patients who are waiting for assessment or lying on trolleys in various parts of the country. This is an immediate issue which can be dealt with now.

I do not have before me the management file on ward closures and so forth at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital. As we have pointed out, hospitals are expected to live up to the specific budgets they signed up for at the beginning of the year. It is not easy to stand up here because I know many people, as Deputy Adams does, who are waiting for treatment. However, given the structure of the health service which has been in situ for a long time, great courage and many decisions will be required to make the shift that will benefit everybody. The Deputy knows that this is the case.

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach should answer the question.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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He ignored the two suggestions I made in response to his request for proposals.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I suggest management in the hospital take into account the recommendations made by the special delivery unit for immediate effect and I am sure it will do so. In the meantime, the Minister for Health is working with all the relevant agencies to deal with the capacity problem being experienced and that will arise again during the winter as a result of the winter flu, vomiting bugs and other issues, including the backlog which, for a particular set of reasons, always begins in January and causes great trouble in terms of increased waiting lists.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Having asked the Opposition to make constructive suggestions, the Taoiseach has ignored two proposals I made.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Joint Committee on Health and Children will meet today. I stated last week that I had called in the Department and the HSE and had what used to be called full and frank discussions with them on a number of issues.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Taoiseach have a full and frank discussion with us?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy wants a constructive reply, I will see to it that the question he raised is dealt with at today's committee meeting.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ross.

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The minor injuries unit in Monaghan General Hospital has been further-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Did the Deputy hear me call Deputy Ross?

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Two weeks ago I raised an issue about the vast payment of €700,000 to the Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach on his retirement. I was given a plausible, albeit unconvincing, response that it was a legacy issue resulting from a deal negotiated under the previous Government. I propose to touch on something Deputy Martin addressed which is not a legacy issue. It is related to NewERA which was established last week and which the House has discussed. What interests me is not the merits of the case for setting up NewERA but the appointment of its director. Is the procedure by which the director was appointed to the job satisfactory to the Government? The procedure was as follows: there was none. There was no advertising, competition or interview and the National Treasury Management Agency which for some reason has been given charge of NewERA refused to reveal the salary of the person appointed.

While a decision made behind closed doors in this manner is unacceptable, for a chief executive or director of a State body who is paid, in my estimate, in the region of €300,000 or €400,000 to be appointed in this way is completely unacceptable. The result - the appointment by the NTMA of one of its insiders - indicates that little has changed in the appointment of persons under the new Government. Does the person involved have the job specification and specialist knowledge necessary? The new body is not in charge of fund management, the area she was in charge of previously, but the sale of State assets. I have not seen any evidence that anybody in the NTMA is qualified to advise or give directions on the sale of State assets. Why does the Government not direct the agency to advertise the position and hold an interview to find someone who is not an insider or at least give a chance to someone who is not an insider to take charge and advise on what is a vital part of Government policy?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I reminded the Deputy previously of where he had strayed in commenting on the qualifications and business of others. He used to be a cheerleader for Fitzpatrick and Michael Fingelton and did so in writing.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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We have heard this before.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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These are the stellar performances that should apply. NewERA has been set up under the direction of Dr. Fitzpatrick at no extra cost. She is eminently qualified to do this job. As the Deputy is aware, NewERA will cover the ESB, Bord Gáis, EirGrid, Bord na Móna and Coillte. We will not wake up one morning to find the Government has suddenly made a knee-jerk decision to sell off whatever it might consider it should sell off.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has already done so in the case of the ESB.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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NewERA under Dr. Fitzpatrick has a specific remit and responsibility and will work with all of those involved with whatever asset is being considered for sale, including the relevant Minister, and report to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Only on that basis will the Government make its decision.

As I informed Deputy Martin, this is not the creation of some new quango but a body within the NTMA with specific responsibilities. The internal process of appointment applied and Dr. Fitzpatrick is eminently qualified to do the job.

Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should answer Deputy Ross's question. How was the appointment made?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If Deputy Ross wants to go down the road of setting up a separate quango and all that process entails, we would have a different story to tell.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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How was Dr. Fitzpatrick appointed?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The elected Government appointed her.

Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Does Deputy McGrath want the county enterprise board to do the job?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The responsibility and job Dr. Fitzpatrick has are strictly in the context of the Government's decision as part of the programme for Government to realise €2 billion from the disposal of assets over the period of the programme. They are the assets that will be considered by the Government after the process has been completed. Dr. Fitzpatrick, in her capacity as director of NewERA, will work with all of those who should be consulted before reporting to the Minister. The Government will make its decision on the basis of her report. It will also have to negotiate with the troika on the extent to which the proceeds, on an individual basis, can be allocated towards job creation and what can be allocated for debt reduction.

I do not accept there is anything underhand here. This is part of getting on and dealing with the reality of what the country faces, not involving ourselves in setting up new quangos that operate at a distance. It is right at the heart of the central programme for Government to realise infrastructure, create jobs and get our country moving. I am sure the Deputy supports that.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Ross has one minute.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I thank the Taoiseach for not addressing the question in any way. Will he answer it? I will put it very simply to him and ask him not to give me a lecture on quangos. Is the Taoiseach happy there was no competition and no advertising for this job, that an insider was appointed and that no interview took place?

Simon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Interesting.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Is this the procedure over which he will continue to acquiesce with the NTMA and other State bodies? This person presumably got a salary - perhaps the Taoiseach will tell the House what it was because the NTMA will not. That is unacceptable as well. I suspect it is equivalent to those of bankers and has a bonus attached.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I do not know how many interviews were held for the appointment of the business editor of the Sunday Independent but that is a matter-----

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Wait until this week.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Be careful, Taoiseach. The paper was quite supportive.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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To answer Deputy Ross's question directly, I am happy that Dr. Eileen Fitzpatrick is eminently qualified to do this job.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Jobs for the girls.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am happy that her appointment by the Government will allow her to do an outstanding job. When we reach a point where Government actually makes decisions in respect of the programme for Government on this matter, the House will have its opportunity to debate those decisions. I am sure the Deputy will join me in wishing Dr. Eileen Fitzpatrick the best in what is a critical responsibility as part of our programme for Government.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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What about the procedures?