Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he has had any contact with or from the Vatican or the catholic church in Ireland regarding his statement in Dáil Éireann of the 20 July 2011 in relation to the Cloyne report. [23769/11]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As Deputy Adams will be aware, the Tánaiste and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade met the Papal Nuncio, Dr. Giuseppe Leanza, on 14 July 2011 to convey the consideration and concerns of the Government arising from the Cloyne report. The church authorities will also have noted the discussion in this House of the report on 20 July.

I have not had any contact with the church authorities in Ireland or the Holy See in the matter in the intervening period. The response of the Holy See to the Government, appropriately addressed to the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, was received on 3 September.

I accept the testimony of Cardinal Sean Brady that the statement from the Holy See was "carefully prepared and respectfully presented." I acknowledge that the response, as described by the Cardinal, conveys the profound abhorrence of the Holy See for the crime of sexual abuse and its sorrow and shame for the terrible sufferings which the victims of abuse and their families have endured. I appreciate the acknowledgement by the Holy See that it is "sorry and ashamed" for the terrible suffering of victims of child abuse in Ireland and their families and the acceptance of "grave failures" over the handling of the child sex abuse scandal.

I am aware that many people were disappointed that elements of the argumentation advanced by the Holy See in its response were technical and legalistic, rather than focused exclusively to the Government's concerns about the welfare of children. Nonetheless, I am satisfied that the response from the Holy See is of value in coming to terms with the sad history of abuse and the inadequate handling of cases.

The Holy See has suggested that the way forward is through continuing dialogue and co-operation. The Government will insist on arrangements that ensure, as far as possible, the safety from abuse of children. With confidence, I require and expect to have the complete and unreserved co-operation of the church authorities and everyone in our society to that end.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Gabhaim buíochas leis an Taoiseach fosta. Is the Taoiseach satisfied with the procedures and the attitudes now adopted by the Catholic hierarchy on compliance with the law?

I note last week the report In Plain Sight, which was published by Amnesty International and launched by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy Fitzgerald, put the issue of the abuse of tens of thousands of Irish children in sharp focus. According to the report, children were tortured, brutalised, starved and abused in institutions run by the State and the Catholic hierarchy in what has been described as the greatest human rights failure in the history of the State. Ós rud é go bhfuil an tuairisc ar Cloyne ar fáil ó mí Iúil, cén dul chun cinn atá déanta le páistí a chosaint? Given that this Amnesty International report follows on from the Cloyne report which was published in July last, what progress has been made in bringing forward statutory changes in procedures to ensure the protection of children?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is dócha, ar dtús, go bhfuil an t-Aireacht Leanaí agus Gnóthaí Óige curtha i gcríoch. Tá sin críochnaithe agus tá an Roinn ag obair. Tá a fhios ag an Teachta Adams go bhfuil dlúth-cheangailt idir an Roinn Leanaí agus Gnóthaí Óige agus an Roinn Dlí agus Cirt agus Comhionannais ó thaobh na deacrachta seo. The Deputy is aware that the Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, is working actively in her Department, which was established specifically to deal with children and youth affairs. The Department is working on the introduction of vetting legislation and the statutory implementation of the guidelines for children. It hopes to bring the children's advocacy groups together again to discuss the changes recommended by a previous Attorney General to the wording to be used in a potential referendum on children's rights. These are matters of absolute priority for the Minister. I do not doubt that she will be quite willing to answer any detailed questions Deputies may have about them. Although this question relates to the Cloyne report, I should say that I was also shocked by the Amnesty report, which is of considerable interest to the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach raised an issue in his speech on the Cloyne report. As Head of Government, the Taoiseach made specific points about the behaviour of a separate state. We have all gone on the record to criticise the response and record of the church on the abuse of children. When we make assertions, we have to be willing to do more than simply say we stand over them. The Taoiseach's spokesman said that the Taoiseach had no incident in mind when he claimed that the Vatican had hindered an investigation. The Taoiseach said at the time that another state had frustrated and hindered an investigation. When this claim was challenged by the Vatican, the Taoiseach or his spokesman said that the Taoiseach had been referring to a much earlier letter. The report itself does not suggest that the letter in question was used to frustrate its inquiries. Why have we been given two different explanations for the words used by the Taoiseach? Can the Taoiseach clarify the situation a bit more for us?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I recall very well standing here in my own humble way trying to reflect the anger and the deep sense of violation of the Irish people regarding what had happened. I make no apology for standing over the comments I made in the Dáil. This was a statutory inquiry into a specific set of allegations in the diocese of Cloyne. There should have been nothing less than full and comprehensive co-operation on the part of the church, as the organisation that was the sole subject of the inquiry. The level of church co-operation with the Murphy commission from the Vatican and locally appointed leadership was not acceptable. There is no doubt that the absence of full co-operation undermined the opportunity for the inquiry to get to the heart of the allegations. As I said in my reply to Deputy Adams, I respect the words used in Cardinal Brady's response and the profound abhorrence of the Holy See. I expect the church authorities and everybody else to work with the Government as it does its work in the interests of putting in place legal protection for all the children of this island. I hope that what has happened cannot happen again. Standards are being set out and work is being done by the Department of Children and Youth Affairs. I hope that as a result, the Irish people will have an opportunity to vote in a referendum on children's rights that goes further in setting out the standards and principles we espouse in respect of all our children.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We all agree that the church and the Vatican, in particular, were not sufficiently proactive down through the years in response to the issue of child abuse and child sexual abuse, in particular. I established the Laffoy-Ryan commission to examine industrial schools. I established the Ferns inquiry, which revealed horrific abuse of children. The aspect of the Cloyne issue about which I am asking is the Taoiseach's assertion that another state frustrated or hindered an inquiry in this state. I am trying to ascertain the exact way in which it hindered or frustrated the inquiry. Was there a specific incident in mind? Was there a specific issue on which it actually tried to frustrate or hinder the inquiry? I am trying to ascertain the Taoiseach's basis for making that assertion.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In my contribution here, I did not refer to specific incidents. I said that there was less than full and comprehensive co-operation with the statutory inquiry into very serious allegations about child sexual abuse in the diocese of Cloyne and that it did not help the inquiry to get to the heart of the matter. Clearly, the desired level of co-operation from the Vatican and from local leadership was not available to the Murphy report. That upset me greatly.