Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is exactly seven months since the Government took office. In that period, an extra 25,144 people have signed on the live register and, going by ESRI figures, 29,166 people emigrated. That is a shocking figure of over 50,000 people, with 1,667 people signing on or leaving every week, something that has an unbelievably negative effect on the country.

So far the Government's answer to the crisis has been JobBridge, a €40 million investment in capital and current expenditure. Going by the Government's figures, that creates about 400 jobs, the equivalent of two days of signing on and emigration. Those figures represent a serious crisis, one where people cannot feed their families, pay their mortgages, heat their houses or go to the doctor, with many families leaving Ireland for good. The depth of the crisis and those shocking figures are an indictment of the Government in that time. We need an immediate, substantial and enormous response. The Minister for Finance stated this is not a Keynesian stimulus package but that is exactly what the crisis demands.

On two occasions the Taoiseach has intimated in the Chamber that there are jobs but that Irish people do not want them, that they were not happy with the wages and the relevant employer had to ask for immigrants to fill the posts. I do not believe that. Irish people want to work and if the Government wanted to resolve this situation, it would be simple to create social media based on a system such as LinkedIn where the unemployed could upload their CVs and businesses could immediately find them. Through the State they could then work out exactly who could fill these jobs.

On other occasions Government Ministers have said we are in a terrible crisis but we are not hearing anything from Sinn Féin on the issue. The opposite is the reality; if people came into the Chamber and listened to the debates, they would hear we have made many suggestions that would create jobs without massive costs to the State. Those jobs would make a serious difference.

The Government claims the State does not create jobs but clearly it does; it is one of the biggest employers, directly and indirectly. Before the recession many massive contracts for roads, schools, hospitals and electricity and water infrastructure created thousands of jobs for small businesses. Targeted capital investment by the State would create the badly needed infrastructure while significantly improving the competitiveness of the State.

Small businesses are having major difficulties accessing State tenders because they are not built to suit small businesses. Businesses must have large balance sheets and years of profit generation before they can even be considered for these tenders. Infrastructural investment leads to a one to three multiplier, which is a massive factor in an open economy, so if the Government created a tender system that was accessible to small business, many of them would be able to migrate from a position where they employ less than ten employees to become larger businesses with more than 50 employees. The process must be streamlined and made more accessible for small businesses.

Accessing credit is another major problem. The Government tells us credit is being made available; the State has made €6 billion available for small business. That cannot be the case. Banks must deleverage by €70 billion while the Government sets them the objective of loaning €6 billion to small business. The two objectives are incongruous and cannot be achieved: only one or the other can be achieved. ISME stated in July that 58% of small businesses cannot get credit but the Credit Review Office has reviewed 100 applications, intervening on 30 occasions. Of the small businesses that have applied for credit, 58% did not get it but the Government response - the Credit Review Office - has only intervened 30 times. This is an anaemic and inadequate response to a major crisis.

Ireland's competitiveness has gone down the tubes in the last years. Serious energy, telecommunications, waste management and transport cost reductions are needed, with proper hedging for the energy supply. The State must make a concerted effort to move away from fossil fuels, which are experiencing major upward pressure in price. A number of large commercial organisations have claimed fuel and energy costs are almost more important when deciding on a location than corporation tax rates. This will become more prevalent in the future.

Three Irish enterprise agencies, the IDA, InvestNI and Enterprise Ireland, have offices throughout the world. These three organisations could be amalgamated and their offices rationalised with no reduction in their effectiveness. These organisations are orientated towards the sluggish old world and not towards the BRIC countries - Brazil, Russia, India and China - which is where growth will happen in the near future.

Seven months after the formation of the Government there is still no nationwide export training programme for businesses with fewer than ten employees. These businesses are the engine that will get the country going again, but all export related supports are delivered in an ad hoc fashion.

County enterprise boards offer major opportunities in local areas. They could become business incubation centres where hot desks could be provided for local businesses that are trying to start up but do not have a location. These businesses could come in and share a computer or a space where they could invite customers or do work. County enterprise boards could help with legal, human resources, accountancy or funding matters. These incubation units could be linked with local third level institutions to help with the cross-fertilisation of ideas.

The grant aid system needs to be reformed. It was designed when the economic bubble was at its biggest. The mid-east region of Louth, Kildare, Wicklow and Dublin cannot now offer the full gamut of grants to businesses because it is hampered by EU rules. This situation will not be altered until 2013 unless the Government gets its act together and makes it happen.

The Government should consider PRSI reform. A generation of people have been educated away from the idea of enterprise. They have been told that there is no safety net if one fails at enterprise. A simple reform could create a PRSI safety net for people who take the risk of starting their own businesses. People could leave the support of social welfare and develop a business without putting their families at the risk of freefall if the business fails.

An enormous amount of reform and change can happen within the enterprise sector and to support enterprise. These matters must not be put on the long finger. A State investment bank, which is part of the programme for Government, could be established within six months. As far as I am aware, discussions as to how it will be constituted have not even started. The Joint Committee on Jobs, Social Protection and Education has not been involved in any discussions and is not aware that they are taking place. It is important that the joint committee be part of those discussions.

It is seven months today since the Government took office. In that time, 25,414 extra people have signed on the dole and 29,166 people have been forced to emigrate. Fianna Fáil were responsible for unemployment of 400,000, but the Government is building up its own set of figures. I implore the Government to get started.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With the agreement of the House I will share time with Deputies Joe O'Reilly, Colm Keaveney, Patrick O'Donovan, Mary Mitchell O'Connor and John Paul Phelan.

I am delighted to have the opportunity to talk about the national internship scheme. We are now at the third anniversary of the disastrous bank guarantee. It is a pity some of the parties who voted for the guarantee were not astute in recognising the difficulties into which it would lead us and the legacy it would leave.

Peadar Tóibín (Meath West, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That information is incorrect.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The national internship scheme was launched 12 weeks ago, on 1 July. To date, it has had applications from more than 4,000 employers, of whom approximately 2,600 have been accepted as appropriate internship hosts. I know that many people are concerned that the scheme should achieve its core aims and objectives, which are to provide a quality internship and a learning and work experience where the intern is mentored. I hope the scheme will provide an opportunity for employers to retain their interns in more permanent employment.

The history of internship around the world, according to the academic literature on the subject, is extremely positive. Certain types of social welfare interventions and back to work schemes really do help people. One of them is internship. The literature on the subject is clear that long-term unemployment does damage to a person's whole life. Unemployed people lose confidence in themselves, connection with the workplace and motivation. A long spell of unemployment can damage a person's skills level so that the skills become out of date. A graduate who does not find employment within a reasonable time will find him or herself in competition with the next set of graduates, which creates an added difficulty.

We must recognise what an internship can do. Deputies will be familiar with the back to work enterprise allowance. This is an extremely positive scheme that offers people self-validation and appreciation of their willingness to get up and try to create, or recreate, business opportunities for themselves. In the 1990s I was heavily involved in the development of back to work schemes. Deputies may remember that back to work schemes offered high levels of personal validation for people. The State gave people a hand up, rather than simply a social welfare payment with no help, encouragement, coaching, support or opportunities.

The take-up of the national internship scheme and interest in it, by employers and interns, has been very good. More than 1,400 people have commenced internships. About 500 of those came from the work placement programme. They were allowed to transfer because interns receive a top-up payment of €50 in addition to the social welfare payment. I wanted people who were on the work placement programme to have the opportunity to transfer to the internship scheme if they wished to do so. Many people have done that, as I expected. However, more than 800 people have commenced internships entirely from scratch in the 12 weeks since the scheme started.

There are, of course, teething problems. One does not create a whole new scheme without them. For instance, some employers have applied to become hosts while not understanding what an internship involves. We have a large number of people who check, validate and take feedback from the public, social media and people such as public representatives who question the quality of some of the positions offered. It is our job to ensure that the positions offered are quality internships.

The scheme's steering group is chaired by the chief executive of Hewlett-Packard in Ireland. A number of business people have been involved from the start. The stakeholders' group, which includes employers and trade unions, is very active and holds regular discussions in regard to quality.

We are currently putting in place an evaluation structure of social welfare in this country. There is need for reform in this area. Upon taking up my position as Minister, I received a large report from the ESRI on people's experience on FÁS courses. However, the report related to the situation during the height of the boom in 2006 and 2008 and provided no information for 2009 and 2010 in terms of whether people's experiences were positive or negative. We must ensure we have evaluation systems in place.

We need then to learn from experience just as does a person in business responsible for a budget that is not working out. As politicians, we must listen to people's concerns. It is necessary, in terms of public administration in Ireland, that we build in evaluation systems. We must then learn from the experience and amend schemes. An issue brought to my attention is that of people on FÁS training courses who, on taking up a position on a course go off the live register. We have put in place arrangements to ensure that their status, in terms of being on the live register, can be suspended and, if they finish the course, the duration of it will not disqualify from taking up an internship if previously they had the three months on the live register or signing-on qualification.

I am grateful to all the people who have been in fairly continuous contact on this issue. There is a final point with which I would like to deal as it comes up a great deal. Many people have asked why it is necessary to have a qualification period. I would like to respond to that. We are now approaching the third anniversary of the putting in place of the disastrous bank guarantee that led to our loss of sovereignty. We are required to show the IMF that people are moving from unemployment and the live register into education, training, JobBridge and so on. We have received very positive feedback on JobBridge. It will not suit everyone just as no job will suit everyone. Work on setting up this scheme has been the first big initiative in terms of co-operation between my Department and the labour services side of FÁS. The civil servants who have been working flat out on this, holding weekly meetings with myself and others and evaluating it on a constant basis, have helped to achieve a great deal in 12 weeks, which is a short time.

We will be able to evaluate the scheme in approximately nine months time and to see how the first graduates of internship are faring.

Joe O'Reilly (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It merits repeating that there is nothing more soul destroying or as negatively impacting on families as unemployment in terms of their decisions to have children, self development, confidence and so on. It is for that reason that this Government has from the outset treated unemployment as a priority. Everything the Government is doing is predicated on that principle.

The Minister, Deputy Burton, outlined the workings of the internship scheme on which 1,400 people have taken up places. It will be a huge life changing experience for those people. In the jobs initiative, of which the internship scheme is part, the Government restored the national minimum wage, cut PRSI and reduced VAT rates in labour intensive areas. There is anecdotal evidence of a real improvement in tourism this year and of the VAT rate cuts having been a success in the food and catering sectors, which is good news.

It is necessary that we continue to remove impediments to employment. The first major impediment to job creation is the shortage of credit flow in the economy. The creation of the two pillar banks is the first initiative to deal with this. The pillar banks will over a period lend €30 billion to small and medium enterprises. They are required to lend €3 billion this year, €3.5 billion next year and €4 billion in 2013, which is an important initiative. The partial loan guarantee scheme, which will be announced during the next few weeks, will assist businesses that have potential but cannot readily access credit. I believe that is hugely important.

A micro-finance start-up fund and business expansion loans are to be made available. All of this finance, which will enable small enterprises start up, is a critical part of recovery and job creation at this critical time when credit is not and has not been flowing. There has been a huge problem over the past few years in terms of credit flow in the economy. That remaining impediment needs to be addressed. In the context of job creation, another area that needs to be addressed is research and innovation. The Minister, Deputy Bruton, with his colleagues, the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, and others are currently reviewing the innovation agenda. Some €5 million will be spent on an applied research centre in cloud computing. Cloud computing is hugely important given that, according to recent reports from Microsoft, it has the potential to realise €9.5 billion annually and to employ 8,600 people by 2014. This extraordinary initiative must be supported. Some €6 million will be spent on a research centre in energy and the smart grid and €44 million will be spent on research teams in ICT and the live sciences. Innovation and research is critical to our recovery.

We must reduce costs in our economy, including in respect of professional fees and we must obtain more value for money in terms of how we do things. I have advocated in a lot of fora in the media that as a first start we liberalise the legal profession. We must ensure barristers and solicitors can go into the same courts, do the same jobs and work together to reduce legal costs, as in the case of the medical profession. We must take on a value for money ethos and a value for money practical way of progressing in every one of our State agencies and so on. We must place a high emphasis on costs.

If we deal with costs, actively support research and innovation, continue with the current jobs initiative and get credit flowing we can, I believe, ensure consumer confidence returns and turn things around.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this important motion. I acknowledge the quality of contributions from the Opposition. While we may not agree on many issues, the Government must in the context of the forthcoming budget take on board many of the points made in this debate.

A sound argument was made by an earlier speaker in regard to the role of county enterprise and development boards. To that end, I welcome the dedication, commitment and action of the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, in terms of today's announcement of a €3.5 million capital spend in this area.

It means much to my county, as it will get 10% of the national allocation, €350,000. Tonight, the county manager confirmed to me that this will mean the immediate creation of 50 jobs.

Deputy Tóibín's analysis is correct that we need to penetrate into communities through local small and medium-sized enterprises. The motion, however, unfairly attempts to accuse the Government of not recognising or understanding the difficulties faced by the jobless. Concern for unemployed people and the identification with those who find themselves without work is not a characteristic that should be monopolised by any political party or persuasion. With few exceptions, I did not hear many Opposition Members say they would be prepared to appraise positively the results of the recent jobs initiative.

The initiative is an investment in people resulting from our ongoing success in renegotiating the EU-IMF arrangement. Since the Government took office, it has driven the jobs initiative, making it easier for employers to hire and making it less costly in the recruitment and retention of those seeking jobs with a 50% cut in PRSI rates for workers earning less than €356 a week. The introduction of the 9% VAT rate and the suspension of the air travel tax have also incentivised tourism to Ireland. According to the Restaurants Association of Ireland, up to 500 jobs have been created in its sector since the initiative was put in place.

The significant increase in the number of visitors to the country, with 250,000 extra tourists in the first six months of this year must also be acknowledged. The minimum wage has been restored to €8.65 per hour to maintain decent standards of living and dignity for those who find themselves in low-paid work. It also protects local economies and the Government will legislate for workers affected by the legal dismantling of the old joint labour committees. More training places and back-to-work initiatives have been introduced by the Government such as the internship scheme, JobBridge. Up to 30,000 places have been provided to jobseekers and graduates. This is one of the many planned initiatives to end our economic winter.

These solutions do not take into account, however, the preservation of the 12.5% corporation tax rate over which we faced an onslaught from our European partners. Neither does this motion take into account the proposed landlord and tenant Bill which will abolish upward only rent reviews.

I note the observations from Members opposite about the importance of the Government setting the conditions for employment. The Government can be an agent of change for direct employment. Next week in Tuam, County Galway, the Government will invest €1.1 million in an ambulance base.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is no thanks to Deputy Finian McGrath. His years have been wasted on the issue.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I represent Dublin North-Central in case Deputy Keaveney does not know.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Work will commence on the base next week resulting in the employment of 20 medical emergency technicians in the reconfiguration of ambulance services in Galway, Mayo and Roscommon. This capital spend will go to a local contractor who will employ locally. These are positive developments in which the Government is getting people back to work. Such capital spends as the one in Tuam send out the right signal that communities can expect significant improvements in health services, etc. It also highlights the extent to which the Government, unlike its predecessor which Deputy Finian McGrath supported, is committed to serving rural communities.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Keaveney is a great man for not giving up on this one.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Finian McGrath may laugh about the jobless issue, particularly considering his fingerprints are all over the problems caused by his support for the previous Government.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I stood up to that Government when it counted.

Colm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Developments like these will address the neglect caused by the role played by Deputy Finian McGrath in supporting the previous Government. They also give hope to the people of my community and others who have suffered because of Deputy Finian McGrath's mismanagement of the economy.

Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, and his departmental colleagues well in their roles. No greater problem faces this country than joblessness. If I were not elected to the House, I could easily be on the dole queue or working abroad in New Zealand. Many of those who qualified as primary school teachers with me find themselves unemployed. No political party has a monopoly on representing the concerns of the unemployed. We must all put the country first and put politics in the backseat for a change.

From my experience as a county councillor over the past eight years and seeing the work done by small and medium-sized enterprises as the backbone of local economies, the Government must relight the spirit of entrepreneurship which was quenched by the mismanagement of the country's finances and the recklessness of the banks. We have come full circle now where people with good business ideas and models cannot get seed capital. Many of these people tell me of such problems in my constituency clinics. The banking sector, with the assistance of independent third parties, must give those with well-researched and developed business proposals access to capital so they can create employment.

I also want to see what may be terms the "dequangoisation" of the job creation sector. I have lost count of the number of agencies involved in job creation. While the Government must get rid of the duplicity that is occurring among the job creation agencies, the Opposition should not use it as a chance to score points. Having worked over the past eight years with small and medium-sized enterprises and Limerick's county enterprise board, I know the enterprise board system works. I would like to see companies under the system which have the potential to expand having a seamless transition to Enterprise Ireland support. Such companies must be provided with a route to progress and encouraged to expand to be able to come under the Enterprise Ireland remit.

I see no benefit in dumping county enterprise boards into another quango. We have a massive land bank available to the State. It is important local authorities control this land bank and assets such as broadband and water services while the county enterprise boards under the auspices of Enterprise Ireland are retained to promote small and medium-sized businesses. Currently, business people can go to up to 12 different agencies but not one can give them straight assistance. I implore the Minister of State to "dequangoise" Ireland and get back to a single agency approach and a supportive banking sector for small and medium-sized enterprises.

Mary Mitchell O'Connor (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am disappointed by the negativity of this motion. There is nothing positive in it with no concrete solutions offered. My disappointment is compounded by the fact the members of the Technical Group who tabled this motion were conspicuous by their absence in the Chamber last night. What we, and our young people who are thinking of emigrating, need is a bit of positivity. We have a responsibility to give them hope. We can do this with creative thinking and real solutions. The Government inherited an unemployment rate of approximately 14%. A drop in Ireland's competitiveness from fourth to 24th in the world presented a serious challenge to the new Government when it took office, but it has already showed its mettle in the fight against unemployment by introducing real solutions. The twin policies of cutting VAT rates and employers' PRSI were widely welcomed in the context of job creation. The tangible effect of our abolition of the joint labour committee employment regulation orders was the creation of 490 jobs in just two months. We introduced the visa waiver programme, which was intended to boost tourism to provide a jobs boost. I highly commend the plans to develop a micro-finance start-up fund that will provide start-up and expansion loans to micro-enterprise. I also commend the plans to ensure open public procurement for small to medium-sized enterprises, SMEs.

The big news this week that Twitter is to establish an international office in Dublin shows a renewed international confidence in our economy and the Government's policies. This is the kind of creative thinking sorely missing in the motion.

I recently attended events at the Dublin and Dún Laoghaire chambers of commerce and the Dún Laoghaire Businesses Association. Organisations like these are out there doing their very best. They should be recognised and deserve all the support we can give. Let us stop the whinging.

John Paul Phelan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I thank Deputy Mitchell O'Connor for sharing a couple of minutes with me. I welcome the opportunity to address the House on the contents of the motion. As a representative from the south east, where the recent announcement of TalkTalk's closure is devastating and will have a knock on effect for the region, I urge the Ministers for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation and Education and Skills to bring their energies to bear on finding a national and regional solution to the jobs crisis.

After County Donegal, the south-east region has the country's highest level of unemployment at more than 18%. The levels in counties Wexford and Kilkenny are slightly higher still. Contrary to the popular image, the Celtic tiger's presence in the part of the country that I represent was not strong.

I commend the Government, in particular the Minister for Education and Skills, on the swift action taken to announce the criteria for the establishment of a technological university for the south east. The project has the potential to have a positive impact on our region. Ours is the only region without a university. We have the lowest average household incomes and the lowest third level attendance rate. The political, geographical and economic cases for the university's development are strong.

I am slightly confused by some of the issues raised in the Technical Group's motion. It refers to the Government repaying unguaranteed bondholders. Since coming to power, our policy has been not to repay unguaranteed bondholders in full. The motion also refers to the need for a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. One of the Government's first actions was to increase the minimum wage and introduce the jobs initiative.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I must ask the Deputy to conclude. We are short on time.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

And no whinging.

Michael Healy-Rae (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There is an air of despair among our young people. They are highly educated, highly skilled, yet with no prospect of gainful employment. Unemployment creates many issues, not least of which is the low morale of those who are unemployed. It also creates many health and family issues. The list goes on and on. As legislators, we have a duty to ensure that no measures we enact will impair the prospects of employment.

We have a duty to put in place measures that will enable people to gain employment. We also have a duty to employers, be they large multinationals or indigenous companies, to put in place measures that will in no way restrict their ability to employ people.

We must at all times try to introduce legislation that will create an environment that allows employers to create employment. We must consider ways to reduce the hidden costs of employing people. The employers' PRSI contribution is one element in which we can make changes. Health and safety training, be it mandatory or specific training, creates another cost. Could this training be provided by FÁS or other agencies? We can talk in the Chamber until the cows come home. Unless we act to create an environment that does not restrict or apply prohibitive costs to the recruitment of new staff, all of our talk is only hot air.

This morning, an example of an employer being prevented from retaining jobs was brought to my attention. To date, if a person running a small business wanted to send a circular advertising his or her business in the locality, he or she could target 1,000 or 2,000 people. An Post has changed its policy on this type of leaflet drop. Instead of being able to concentrate on a certain area, the Caherciveen employer in my example must now cover most of south County Kerry in his leaflet drop.

Instead of helping business people and encouraging them to remain in business, HSE inspectors are going around closing them down. I blame the people who send out the inspectors rather than the inspectors themselves.

I respect the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, for being in attendance and thank him for his work on our behalf since taking up his position. I wish him well for the future.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan is sharing time with other Deputies.

Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I had better address the comments on why certain Members were not present last night. I can only answer for myself. It is unusual that I would not be in attendance, but something unusual occurred. Something was signed into law behind our backs yesterday and I spent the whole of the evening dealing with the reality. I am referring to the habitats and wildlife regulation, which signals another nail in the coffin of rural Ireland. Perhaps I should have forgotten about it and come to the Chamber, but I did not have the time. We were surprised because no one told us about the regulation. Then again, why should we have a right to know? We heard about it second-hand from the media, but that is nothing new.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Since there are more than 120 Members on the Government side, the phrase "It is a bit rich" comes to mind, given that only 5% of them, some six Deputies, are present. Some 40% of the members of our group are in attendance. I look forward to the day the Government can reach these levels.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If run correctly, this country has the potential to be the most prosperous in the world. We can feed 15 times our population, even more if the Government changed its policy and let us drain land. The potential exists to double the number of jobs in the tourism sector. However, creating employment in an area like mine is difficult. The State has never successfully created jobs in my area. On my first day in the Dáil, I stated how many people emigrate from my area, even in good times. Nineteen of the 20 people in my and my wife's families needed to emigrate. Half of our respective families were born in London. No one has ever successfully created a sufficient level of employment in my area.

Throughout that time, the State has never had the courage to give people the power to control their own destinies or allowed for a decent system of local governance wherein people can decide their futures. This is a major problem. Had we that power, we would be able to reduce rates while retaining the same service levels, as we would have the power to get rid of waste in the local government sector. If one reduces the cost of rates, one makes it easier for someone to set up a business. There is no incentive for someone to set up a business in Roscommon, south Leitrim or any of the surrounding counties because, before one earns a single cent, one must give between €100 and €200 per week to the council. The latter is a totally unaccountable body in that it has an unelected person in charge. Therefore, it is a case of money down the drain.

Reducing rents would help us become more competitive. How did we get into circumstances in which the reduction of rents has become impossible because of upward-only rent reviews? We have a joke of a system in which one cannot win no matter what one does. Although one increases competitiveness if one reduces rents, our system is such that one reduces the value of people's pensions if one does so. Moreover, if one does so, one reduces the value of many of the properties in NAMA, thus costing the taxpayer even more money. We are tied to a joke of a system in which one cannot budge. No matter what one does, one gets hung out to dry. The system is broken and needs to be fixed. Until it is fixed, we will never go anywhere.

Agriculture has massive potential where I come from. It would have even more potential if the planning legislation passed some months ago behind our backs had not been introduced. How can one increase output if one cannot stop one's land from flooding? I am wrong in saying jobs will not be created in this area because jobs will be created for consultants and experts on areas in which they have never been before. They charge farmers a fortune to tell them they cannot drain their land. How do these people increase productivity or employment? The Government, if it really wants to increase employment in this area, would want to increase the suckler premium payment, which it halved, from €40 to €80. This would make sense. As a result of the reduction, the national herd has reduced by 30% at a time when we need more activity in this area. Farmers cannot afford to hold onto animals long enough because they do not have an incentive to do so.

I find rather amusing the idea that Ireland has a car industry, which industry must be stimulated by throwing money at car dealerships. This does not do anything for the economy. It does wonders for the Japanese and German economies but nothing for us because, although some of the money circulates in Ireland, the vast majority ends up in the countries with real car industries. If we were really interested in helping people in the car industry, we would encourage people not to buy new cars for three years. In this case, there would be a lot more employment for mechanics whose job would be to fix cars.

If I had more time, I would make many more suggestions.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am thankful for the opportunity to speak on the motion on jobs and the current unemployment rate, which stands at 14.5%. Before I discuss the details of the motion, I must commend and thank the Independent group for bringing it forward to draw attention to the needs of the unemployed. Tonight we stand with the unemployed and put forward sensible solutions and ideas to create jobs. It is not our first time to do so and we have never run away from putting forward a radical and sensible alternative. Tonight I urge all Deputies to support our motion and not to play party politics with the unemployed. This issue is too serious and we must stand up and be counted.

Let me refer to some of the comments made by the Government Deputies. Many of us are optimistic about the future of the country. Irish workers have great resilience. They are not afraid of working. The average retirement age in Ireland is 64, compared with an EU average of 61. More young people have acquired a higher education in Ireland than in any other EU country, with the possible exception of Cyprus. Ireland ranks ninth by the World Bank's measure of ease of doing business. GDP per capita is still well above the EU average. These are the positive points and this is why we are saying it is a scandal that our talent is not being utilised in the national interest.

There is much debate in the media about social welfare fraud and clampdowns thereon. There is major hype coming from the Government. I am very disappointed that the Labour Party seems to be sucked into this debate. Less than 1% to 2% of people receiving social welfare engage in petty fraud. One should compare this to the scandals created by the tax dodgers and those who travel abroad to avoid paying taxes. It is time to stop targeting the unemployed and poor and go after the people with the wealth and resources.

The American humorist Will Rogers said, "Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there". The Government should not just sit there. It should listen to the advice of the people on the ground and the Independents in the Dáil and then act. Waiting for the European Union to react is not an option. Ireland should lead in this regard.

This motion condemns the Government for opting to make good the gambling debts of unguaranteed bondholders at a time when desperately needed State funds should be invested aggressively in job stimulus initiatives. That is where the future lies.

Let us consider the undermining of the right of workers to a fair day's pay for a fair day's work. Advocating this right is a Labour tradition and it should not be breached. Giving somebody €50 per week is not and should never be an option. Taking away jobs in the sector should not be accepted. We must restore the right of workers to a fair day's pay for a fair day's work by addressing immediately the deep flaws in the national internship scheme. I ask the Minister to do so.

We need to return sanity to the commercial rented sector by eliminating upward-only rent reviews. We should face up to the issue of the massive gambling debts of unguaranteed bondholders. We need to get this country moving and working.

There needs to be a change in mindset in this debate. We need to go after and challenge the mega-rich. Ever since the Thatchers and Reagans of the 1980s, there has been a steady transfer of wealth to the very rich. This accelerated in recent years as hard-working people took cuts in income to bail out the super-wealthy bankers. Not only is this social injustice contributing to many injustices in society, it is the case that those on low and middle incomes reinvest practically all their money in the local economy, thus keeping more people at work. On the other hand, the mega-rich raise much of their wealth by hoarding, buying gold, silver and high-end luxury imports, or by speculating on the money markets.

The more the working-class and middle-class people are hit the more money is taken out of the economy. The Government should, therefore, stop implementing the failed policies of the past ten years and adopt a sensible suggestion, such as that made by billionaires such as Warren Buffet, which has led to both economic and social progress in smaller economies. We should not be afraid to encourage people to buy Irish in local shops and industries. An extra €20 spent in local shops and industries by every person, particularly those who are over 55, who seem to have an extra few bob and savings worth in the region of €75 billion, would create 20,000 new jobs. This is the reality of the debate.

Addressing cigarette smuggling could raise €500 million. Cigarette smuggling puts legitimate retailers out of business. Up to 6,000 retail jobs are at risk because of difficult trading conditions, caused by factors that include cigarette smuggling. Ireland is in deep recession and we must protect jobs. If shops close, more people will need social welfare, thereby creating an extra burden for the State. I recently met people directly involved in the industry and they gave me proposals to put to the Minister, Deputy Noonan, that would raise €500 million extra in revenue. The Government has a brass neck to accuse the Independents of not putting forward proposals. While we challenge Government policies, we put forward our own.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Let me deal with the criticism regarding the absence of the Independent group last night. It is fair enough and I am as guilty as anybody if the group's number was not as high as it should have been. This is dangerous territory in which to tread, however, because, since I entered the House this evening, I have not seen a single Minister, in spite of this being a debate on jobs. I have seen one member of the Labour Party, which was traditionally supposed to be very concerned about jobs. During part of the time I have been here, I saw no members of the Labour Party.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister, Deputy Burton, was here until a moment ago.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes, but she was not here for a period of the debate.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

She spoke on it.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is the type of politics in which we should not indulge, but it started on the Government side of the House and people in glasshouses should not throw stones.

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Hear, hear.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is the only comment I will make on the matter as it is unproductive. This is a serious debate and if the only contribution people on the Government side have to make is to state not enough members of the Technical Group are present, it looks to me as though they are pretty bankrupt of ideas for sorting out the jobs problem.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Far from it.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have not seen before or during this debate, or in Government thinking since it came to office, any radical change in its attitude towards job creation. Nobody on the Government side appears to think in any way outside the box. They seem to think with exactly the same paralysis as the previous Government on this issue. I acknowledge the internship programme and it is not fair necessarily to criticise it at this stage. However, we are speaking about a very small number of jobs for the 14.2% of people who are out of work. Why does the Government not embark on something radical?

I am sure I do not have the support of all of my Technical Group colleagues on this suggestion, but why does the Government not focus on two or three areas in which it could do something? I will suggest two. Where are the areas in which growth has and could occur? It is very simple: the first is multinationals and the second is entrepreneurships and small businesses. What has the Government done about these? Last week, Twitter came and this is a great achievement. Of course there was a great parade and trumpeting and the Government claimed credit for it. I suspect it has to do with the IDA and has been in the offing since long before the Government came to power. This is an area in which all Governments of the State have been immensely successful.

It is not very popular to speak about multinationals as a successful growth area because it implies we are not doing it on our own. However, we are because successive Governments have been united in seeing the advent and arrival of multinationals as a job creation mechanism, with more than 100,000 jobs from US multinationals alone. This is a tremendous achievement. It is the policy of matching education with the multinational capital foreign direct investment which comes here.

Why not state this is working and reduce the tax? It is because the Government cannot think outside the box and does not dare to do so because it is scared of Sarkozy and Merkel and the rest of them. Why does the Government not go over there and state we will reduce it? We do not owe anything to Europe except the few bob; we owe it no goodwill whatsoever. What would be the result of this? There would be a loss in tax revenue but an enormous growth in jobs, and this is what we want. The spin-off effect and the spending effect would boost the economy. Europe would not like it, and we are frightened of going to Europe and stating it is what we will do. Try it. What is wrong with it? The Government is scared of doing anything dramatic. The Government is still in the same mindset.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We are not one bit scared. We have a clear plan for small businesses.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am glad to hear the Minister of State interrupting. He has come to life and I am glad to see that someone on the Government side has come to life. It is good. Stand up, speak and interrupt whenever you like.

The other area in which the Government could do something is that of credit, which was mentioned by a speaker on the Government side of whom the Minister of State did not take any notice but did not interrupt. Why does the Government not get credit flowing? It can do this. The Minister of State knows, I know and everybody else knows the banks are telling plain, straightforward lies about lending to small businesses. Speak to any small business organisation and it will state enterprises do not even bother going beyond a telephone call seeking credit because the banks have told them not to bother. The Government controls the banks and is in charge of every significant bank in the State bar the Bank of Ireland on which it has huge pressure to bear. What is it doing? It is conniving with the banks, and the hidden agenda is that the Government states the banks have set targets but the applications are not there so forget about it. This is how it works. However, this is not the case because anecdotal evidence and surveys conducted by ISME and other small business organisations show quite conclusively that credit is not flowing to small businesses and as a result no jobs are being created. It is in the power of the Minister of State and the Government to do this. Instead, we hear all about Enterprise Ireland, the IDA and all of the others.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They are doing a good job, with €15 billion of exports.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Enterprise Ireland is one of the least efficient organisations among the semi-State satellites and, I can tell you, that is saying something.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Unfair comment.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I agree with much of the Sinn Féin proposal-----

Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is historic.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----that many of these job creation entities should be merged, because they are quangos which do very little. They are established as window dressing to protect Governments so they can hide behind them and summon them.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

There have been €15 billion in exports by Enterprise Ireland companies. The Deputy does not have his facts right.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The previous Taoiseach's solution to the unemployment problem was to knock together of all of the heads of the quangos but nothing happened. The Government is doing exactly the same.

John Perry (Sligo-North Leitrim, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Deputy Ross is incorrect about Enterprise Ireland. A total of €15 billion was exported by Enterprise Ireland companies.

Shane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am glad the Minister of State is awake. Thank God for a voice from the Government benches.

Tom Fleming (Kerry South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The major issue is that almost 450,000 people are out of work and many of them see no light at the end of the tunnel. We need innovation and radical thinking in job creation allied to the existing measures being put in place. I suggest we begin with people in the public and private sectors who are within five years of retirement and who, I am sure, would give serious consideration to job sharing. This would be on a voluntary basis and it would give them an opportunity to ease into and adapt to retirement. If it were properly rolled out in a structured manner, it would open up opportunities for thousands of people.

While people would work for half a week during the five years of their semi-retirement, they would be credited with a full week's pension contribution. The people replacing them would include those in professions who are well qualified, well educated and well skilled who would not need pension contributions because they would benefit in a major way. There would also be retraining and up-skilling. The major issue is that they would be removed from the unemployment list and given hope.

It may be possible for companies and the public sector to work with employees to make up for the person who is leaving. I am sure in many cases the shoes of the person being replaced would be filled successfully by the person replacing them for the five years because they would have the basic qualifications required. This structure should be explored. It would be up to the Department to tweak it and perhaps to find ways around the system. It would be cost neutral as there would be no cost to the State; if anything there might be a little net gain.

I agree with Deputy Ross that the small and medium-sized enterprise sector is having a very challenging time. These businesses find it difficult to receive payment in many cases and many uncollectable debts exist which are being written off. Most of these companies cannot downsize because they are small by nature. They are heavily dependent on the banks and, as Deputy Ross mentioned, the banks have put the shutters down and are not co-operating. The aspiration of Government policy is that approximately €3 billion will be made available this year from the two pillar banks, with €3.5 billion next year and €4 billion the year after. That is not happening. It will not happen unless the Government intervenes and takes action immediately. The Government must intervene to allow people to access credit and to give them an opportunity to at least retain what they have and build on it.

County enterprise boards are providing invaluable backup and support to small and medium enterprises through mentoring them and directing them on the right pathway in the future. If county enterprise boards are allocated funding they offer the necessary start-up funding to companies. They have a vital role to play in future job creation along with Enterprise Ireland. They might both need to be revamped, built up with the correct structures and properly funded. Last year for instance Enterprise Ireland client companies generated exports of €13.9 billion, an increase of 10% on the previous year. Those companies provide 133,500 jobs and they generate a spend in the economy of €19 billion.

Although the concept and principle of internships is good they should be promoted and policed more so that nobody can abuse them. An internship should be based on the number of staff a firm employs prior to recruitment. At all times the intern should be additional to the existing workforce. An internship provides a net gain for people who need to get on the employment ladder as it gives them an opportunity to develop their skills.

Many people are currently facing emigration. They are flying out of the country at a rapid rate. The Minister, Deputy Burton, indicated that 4,000 had applied for internships, which is disappointing. The programme must be accelerated. Only 2,600 placements have been approved, which is even more disappointing given that the scheme has been in operation for some time. The programme should be reactivated and pushed more strongly.

In reply to a parliamentary question on the Garda vetting system implemented by the Garda on behalf of the Minister for Justice and Equality it was indicated that it takes approximately three months to vet individuals seeking part-time or full-time work in the various professions requiring vetting. That is most disappointing. Approximately 188,000 people required to be vetted in 2007 and the number rose to 292,000 in 2010. The waiting time is significant and must be reduced.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What time do we conclude tonight?

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will conclude at 9.07 p.m.

Joan Collins (Dublin South Central, People Before Profit Alliance)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will try to be succinct. I welcome the opportunity to discuss job creation and the jobs crisis. I thank the Members from the Technical Group and also those from Sinn Féin who tabled an amendment to the motion.

Recently, I had a conversation with a trade union organiser in the construction industry who visited a site with a public contract to monitor whether workers were registered on the CIF-CIC pension scheme. Not a single worker was paying into the scheme. The site was being worked by contractors and sub-contractors who were employing almost exclusively workers from across the Border.

Again, at a meeting I attended recently with building workers the point was made that they cannot obtain employment due to contractors who are engaged in the black economy. It makes a nonsense of the investment in so-called shovel-ready projects. The investment levels are paltry compared to what is required. We must address the fundamentals in this economy where approximately 500,000 are unemployed. Reference was made previously to the number of people who are emigrating.

Schemes such as JobBridge, internships and work on SMEs are all small tinkerings with the system that can play a tiny role in terms of getting the economy back working. The collapse of the construction industry has had a significant effect. At least one in every three of those thrown on the dole during the crisis was a construction worker. Due to the property bubble we had an unsustainable lopsided economy with one in every seven male workers employed in construction. That means there is a need for extensive retraining programmes, but the most effective way to make an impact on the dole queues is for the setting up of a public works programme aimed at taking construction workers off the dole. Such public works could include an integrated rail and transport network for major cities, including metro north and metro west, on which we heard the announcements that they would not go ahead.

Carbon emissions in this country are double the agreed Kyoto levels. Carbon credits will cost the Irish economy approximately €1 billion in the next five years. There should be a programme to make all public buildings energy efficient. I refer to hospitals, schools and offices. There should be a national programme for housing insulation and the construction of a network of primary health care centres to reduce the pressure on accident and emergency units in hospitals. There should also be a programme to provide social housing, schools, crèches and community facilities. Such programmes would help upskill building workers and every building worker off the dole would help to cut welfare costs, increase the tax base and improve consumer demand leading to other job gains.

To eliminate the black economy element from construction the programme of useful public works should be carried out by a State construction firm using direct employment with construction industry registered employment agreements as the basis for pay and conditions. That is what is really needed to fundamentally get the country back working.

The capital programme for 2010 to 2016 has been cut by 60%. Fianna Fáil's four year plan to 2014 is now being implemented by the Government. There is an envisaged capital spend of €3.5 billion, which is a mere 1.9% of GDP. We need a State investment programme with direct employment and real jobs.

There is a problem with some schemes that take people off the dole such as Tús Nua. It pays only a small amount above the welfare payment for transport but people are being put on emergency tax which can take a number of weeks to sort out. People on welfare, especially those with families, cannot afford to be the victims of such bureaucratic cock-ups. Perhaps someone in government would examine the issue.

Unless we deal with the issue head-on, we cannot sustain the mountain of debt both in the economy and in terms of mortgages. We must look seriously at a writedown of the debts. We must propose a jobs programme along the lines I mentioned and get the money from Europe even if it means getting a low-interest loan for it and pump the money into the economy. It is the only way to deal with the problem. Otherwise, we will see the problem trundling on while the can is being kicked down the road. This country will grind to a halt under the mountain of debt and austerity.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I hope I can respond positively to all the ideas that were put forward. I acknowledge the contribution by Members to the debate on the past two evenings. Members have been generally constructive in their comments to date.

I wish to put on record press releases from the IDA which outline certain examples of foreign direct investments made in the past two weeks. On 26 September the headline read "Twitter to establish international office in Ireland". On 22 September, the headline read "MSD opens new €100m R&D centre in Tipperary". On 21 September the headline read "arvato Finance marks 15 year anniversary with ambitious growth plans". On 20 September the headline read "Pfizer invests €200m in its Grange Castle biotech site". On 20 September the headline read "HCL Technologies establishes Software Delivery Centre in Dublin". On 16 September the headline read "The Coca-Cola Company opens new manufacturing and innovation facility in Wexford." I only put those on the record because they are examples of success in attracting foreign direct investment.

As Minister of State with responsibility for research and innovation, we are currently engaged in a research prioritisation exercise. The purpose of the exercise is to narrow down key elements of areas of research so we can continue to attract that kind of FDI in order that we can ensure we have a platform for the basic research and applied research and that the level of collaboration between industry and academia is deepened so we can ensure we can continue on that platform and to put us even higher up the global rankings in research and innovation. No party or Government should claim for itself this evolutionary process which has been put in place since 1996 by various parties. It is only successful because of the fact that we have organisations such as Enterprise Ireland, the IDA, Science Foundation Ireland and Forfás which have the level of expertise to pitch to a market and attract the type of companies we need.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State has two minutes left.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I apologise to Opposition Members because my time is limited and I would like to respond. Since July, some 1,400 people have signed up to the jobs initiative and the national internship scheme. It will not be a panacea for all our ills but it is making incremental progress. That is how the Government will proceed. We will not have a great leap forward within the next thee or four months because we must still address a deficit issue which has been acknowledged by all sides of the House. There will be differences over the manner in which we continue to address the deficit, but we still have that restraint in terms of our public finances which hampers one's ability to concentrate solely on stimulus. It will be a mix of stimulus and retrenchment, which is the reality of the situation. I will not blame past Governments but will rather look forward to our FDI and strong export sector.

My colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy John Perry, will soon be receiving the first draft report of the small business advisory group. He announced today that county enterprise boards will get another €3.1 million. These are all initiatives which locally and nationally will create the type of stimulus we need.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Who is in charge?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is a slow, incremental process but our hearts and minds are in the right place. If I am to engage in a bit of rhetoric along with some of my counterparts in opposition, I would say that to govern is to choose. That means we will have to make tough decisions in future, but at the same time we are trying to keep the basics right.

I would like to address the habitats directive and farming, as Deputies have referred to them. The "Food Harvest 2020" document has been bought into by all stakeholders involved in the rural economy, including the co-operative movement and farming organisations. We will see tangible growth in that area, but the challenge is whether it will be jobless growth. I acknowledge we must be cognisant of that also.

Flooding was referred to and the Deputy mentioned his inability to get information on the habitats directive. However, not one Deputy in the Technical Group has ever approached me as a Minister to ask for any kind of briefing on the area I represent, which is a foundation for the growth we are talking about. Like other Ministers, my door is open to any Member of the House in order to engage with them constructively on any aspect. Let us do away with the rhetoric that has filled the air for a long time.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State is good at that himself.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We will work together constructively with those on the Opposition benches.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We made a good few suggestions.

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I extend the invitation.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will the Minister of State take on those suggestions?

Seán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I extend the invitation to Opposition Members to engage with us on a personal level and we will do everything we can to bring their agenda to the House.

John Halligan (Waterford, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Minister of State should read our submissions.

Michael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Silence please. I call Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan.

Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I studied the Government amendment to see what was common to it and to our proposal. What is in common is that we all find it totally unacceptable to have an unemployment rate of 14.5%. We all recognise the toll increasing job losses are having on families and individuals. We also recognise that meaningful action must be taken to reduce that rate. I do not doubt that the Government wants to reduce unemployment as well as restoring sustainable economic growth and job creation capacity. I acknowledge some of the Government's actions in that regard. It is unfortunate, however, that the JobBridge internship scheme is being abused by some employers who are letting employees go in order to take on intern staff. Robust action is required to ensure that such abuse does not continue.

In its amendment, the Government commends itself on its work to increase access to credit for viable businesses. Yet we hear of small businesses that are unable to obtain the credit needed to continue, not to mention expand and take on more employees. The dots are not being joined up between what is being said and what is happening on the ground.

It is easy to blame previous Governments, but the Government must also take responsibility for continuing to make good the gambling debts of unguaranteed bondholders. We need State funds to be invested in job stimulus initiatives. We cannot isolate the loss of jobs from what happened in the banks through overextending and risky deals that put the jobs of ordinary workers at risk and which led to the current 14.5% unemployment rate. Jobs are central to our recovery and it is very important to debate this issue now.

It is disappointing that no sooner does a Minister announce X number of jobs in an area, than they are followed by the loss of a wide number of jobs in another area. We must examine why we are losing these jobs. Job retention is vital but it means more than words in the Government's amendment about implementing policies to stimulate the development of new businesses and facilitate the retention of jobs. We must see this actually happening and the more examples, the better.

I want to make two points about the labour force. First, the constant harping on about turning out robotic youths is doing a total disservice to our young people and their second-level teachers. The science exhibition, young entrepreneurs and mini-companies provide just a couple of examples of how creative, inventive and innovative our young people are. Let us not be totally negative about the system.

Second, I cannot understand the rationale of "encouraging" - and I use the word loosely - experienced older people in the public sector to take to the hills. We need their experience and a balanced approach should be adopted in this regard. It is disappointing that we are not encouraging them to stay and give the benefit of their experience.

The national unemployment rate is 14.5% but in Dublin Central, which I represent, it is as high as 28% in some parts. Some areas of central Dublin have been devastated jobs wise because they have been let down in the regeneration initiatives and lost community projects. Long-term unemployment has trebled since 2008 in parts of Dublin Central. Many skilled and unskilled construction workers have been left with very few opportunities for meaningful work. The potential and capacity is there in Dublin Central for building because we are short of houses that have long been promised. In addition, water and sewerage systems are required as it improved social housing by insulating homes to make them more heat efficient, particularly for senior citizens. We are all agreed on what has to be done but the difference lies in how we are going to do it.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Employment is the number one priority for every Member of the Dáil, so it is essential that the measures taken result in job creation. I wish to focus on a few areas starting with the county enterprise boards. This is a micro-sector featuring up to ten jobs in any enterprise. This area is aimed at a person who may have lost a job and is thinking of setting up a business. The 35 county enterprise boards have local flexibility which is an asset. Each of them is set up as a limited company which means that each one must prepare its own full set of accounts. In addition, they have their own websites and prepare 35 annual reports which must be translated into Irish.

I will now focus on Kildare which is the fourth most populous county in the country. People might not realise that but it has grown substantially to a population of 209,000 according to the last census.

Kildare County Enterprise Board had not had any funds available to commit to projects in 2011. In recent months I asked a series of parliamentary questions seeking information as to what happens to county enterprise board surpluses. I was informed this money cannot be transferred to other enterprise boards. What typically occurs is there is a stipulation late in the year that the money must be spent before the end of the year. Therefore, it becomes a joke because the money cannot be used when the allocation is so late in the year. This practice must change.

I recently asked the board how it deals with people who ask for funding during the year when the money is not available. I was informed that the board will advise them to submit an application but in reality, people are so busy that they do not submit an application.

For those who decide to make the leap from welfare to work, there is a significant risk that if the business does not succeed they will be exposed without the cover of welfare payments and anyone leaving a job to become self-employed is even more vulnerable.

The county enterprise boards should be amalgamated into a single limited company and use the money saved on administration costs to spend on job creation. Our welfare system must be more flexible and more inclusive for the self-employed.

I refer to a report on "Morning Ireland" this morning about a man who has set up a unique business providing on-site blood testing for the equine industry. He made the point that he had received a lot of assistance from Enterprise Ireland but all the banks did was talk to him. He was of the opinion that the banks did not know how to lend to business. The banks are stuffed with cash but according to an article in today's Irish Independent, eight out of ten mortgage applications are refused. There is ample evidence that the banks are not lending to business. AIB is looking to increase the cap of €500,000 on the salary for its chief executive. I thought we were to have a change in the culture of the banks. Unless there is a change in attitude in the banks we have no hope of recovery because jobs cannot be created without money. The recapitalisation of the banks was to ensure they could function as banks but they are not doing so. We either wholly own or control these banks and if they are not working then the Government must address that issue now.

The internship scheme works well in some countries and I am not opposed to it in principle but there are major flaws in the design and operation of our current scheme. I listened carefully to the Minister and I agree with some of the points she made. However, it appears that the scheme is being used in some instances to recruit experienced people and this in some cases could be described as job displacement. There is no apparent economic test to determine if a job could be provided rather than an internship. People at both the top and the bottom are being abused.

I was informed about advertisements for jobs for solicitors asking for six years' experience. However, the Legal Aid Board was recruiting for solicitors. In a reply to a parliamentary question the Minister stated, "I can confirm that the Legal Aid Board is actively participating in the scheme and this is a development that I very much welcome." It is either an internship scheme or it is not. This confusion is what gets the scheme a bad name.

I remind the House of what the Government parties said before the general election compared with the actions taken since then. At last year's Fine Gael Ard-Fheis, its finance spokesman said, "the creation and retention of jobs is the only way to get the public finances out of the current crisis". It is not good enough to say that it is a top priority because Fine Gael is now the senior party in the Government. This must translate into actions which result in the creation of jobs. The tourism initiative was welcome and it showed that investment brought returns but it was too little and more needs to be done.

In early February, the Labour Party spokesperson, Deputy Joan Burton, said: "Austerity and cuts alone, as we know, will not do the job. Whatever savings have been made by cuts have been eroded by the fact that growth rates keep falling....Labour is planning to use €2.8 billion in the National Pension Reserve Fund for shovel ready projects and then the €2 billion remaining in the fund towards the creation of a strategic investment bank."

Less than a year ago, it was reported that Deputy Eamon Gilmore stated that while the €6 billion in cuts aimed to convince certain institutions that the Government was earnest about making fiscal adjustment, no growth resulted from the €4 billion cuts last year. In the same article he highlighted warnings that companies that were successful have invested their way out of a recession and not tried to save their way out of it. I ask if we can have that Eamon Gilmore back.

Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Labour's way or Frankfurt's way.

Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We clearly need to have a comprehensive jobs package. Unemployment is now at emergency levels. Not a week should go by without an initiative. We need something like the Marshall plan.