Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Question 56: To ask the Minister for Justice and Equality his views on discussions his officials have had with the Incorporated Law Society in relation to fees for the criminal legal aid system; the contingency plans in the events of withdrawal of services by participating barristers and solicitors in the scheme; if he will provide information on any other matter pertaining to this issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24997/11]

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy will be aware, the context for many of the difficult decisions - I am sorry I must again remind him of this - which have had to be taken is the obligation to meet the commitments in the National Recovery Plan 2011-2014 and to meet our obligations to contain public expenditure, as agreed with the IMF and the European Union and as agreed by the previous Government. Expenditure on criminal legal aid totalled €56 million in 2010 and the plan includes a specific commitment to reduce expenditure to yield savings of €5 million in 2011 and €10 million in a full year. These targets were agreed by the previous Government prior to the December 2010 budget announcement. This has meant some hard decisions and regrettably, to try to achieve the targeted reduction of €5 million in the current year, it has been necessary to introduce further reductions to the fees and rates paid under the criminal legal aid scheme. Therefore, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, I introduced an order with effect from 13 July 2011 imposing a reduction of 10% in the fees payable in the District Court. The fees payable in the Circuit and higher courts also will be decreased by 10% and the order necessary to effect the reduction is being drafted and will come into force within a number of weeks.

I am aware of the impact on the legal profession of these most recent reductions coming on top of previous cuts and have been concerned to ensure that legal representation can continue to be provided to those who require it. While I am aware of recent media reports, I can state categorically that no practitioner has contacted either me or my Department to threaten the withdrawal of services. I personally met representatives of the Law Society in July and more recently a meeting was arranged with officials. I understand that, while articulating the deep concern among practitioners regarding the level of the cuts and the financial implications for firms and their employees, the delegation did not suggest to my officials that they intended to withdraw their services. Indeed, they indicated they wish to consult more closely with my Department and to assist in the ongoing efforts to reduce costs by contributing to the work of the task force I have established which at present is examining the structures and systems of the courts with a view to achieving potential cost savings in the medium to long term. A further meeting was held earlier this week in this regard. I greatly appreciate this positive engagement and hope that in consequence, important cost saving reforms will follow.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I welcome the engagement that has been announced and note the Minister outlined the membership of that task force and when he expects a report. He sometimes reminds me of a disc jockey from the 1980s who continually plays the same record, thereby keeping happy the fan base. There have been reports from an organisation called the Criminal Law Practitioners Association, which appears to have a large representation of criminal lawyers, to the effect they intend to withdraw their services. The association has nothing to do with the Law Society and these reports have been circulated widely throughout the media. Has the Department engaged either with the Law Society or with the aforementioned association on an informal basis to ascertain what will happen in the event of the withdrawal of services by a large number of criminal law practitioners? What contingency services will be available to those who seek to avail of the service in the event of such a withdrawal of services, which no Member would support? In addition, does the Minister intend to introduce the criminal justice legal aid Bill prepared by the former Minister, Dermot Ahern, or has he carried out work in this regard?

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It is amazing how many Bills were being prepared by the former Minister that never saw the light of day and on which I have discovered minimal work was done. There will be a Bill brought forward in regard to the area of legal aid. I do not anticipate that it will be published until the new year because of the other demands made on my Department.

The group that the Deputy makes reference to that received some publicity during the summer months, as far as I am aware, has not been in contact with my Department. There are two representative bodies of the legal profession, the Law Society and the Bar Council. We are always willing to engage with them on issues of concern when they arise. I do not anticipate that lawyers, as officers of the court, in the straitened financial circumstances in which the State finds itself will withdraw services. They will, I am sure, do their duty by their clients and will clearly acknowledge and accept that right across all sectors there have been reductions in income.

In this context, it is worth noting that the figures on the amount of expenditure incurred by the State, between counsel instructed by the DPP and counsel instructed in criminal legal aid matters, give rise to an interesting disparity. For example, in 2010 the DPP's fees to counsel came to a total of €14 million and the criminal aid fees paid to counsel were €18,000,369.

Whilst I said in the context of the EU and IMF agreement it was envisaged that there would be a reduction of €5 million in expenditure in the criminal legal aid area from €56 million to €51 million, for reasons that remain a considerable mystery to me the former Minister, Dermot Ahern, in the context of the justice Estimate and budget that went through in December 2010, only provided for €47 million funding in circumstances in which €56 million was the outturn for 2010. Effectively, there was a shortfall of €9 million left by the previous Government on the funding available this year for criminal legal aid.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister keeps throwing out those little grenades. He had no difficulty in finding €30 million in his Department for the Garda overtime for the visits of the Queen and President Obama, and we have yet to see from where he found it. If he wants to look for money, he is able to find it.