Dáil debates

Tuesday, 20 September 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions (Resumed)

Departmental Appointments

3:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach if he has, following the appointment of the Second Secretary to his Department, given instructions relating to amending his Department's role in European Affairs. [21083/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will detail which members of Government carry authority to issue formal instructions to the Second Secretary in his Department; [21086/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff that will be transferring to his Department from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. [21418/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he still plans to half the size of his Department in view of the setting up of a new Office of the Tánaiste and the transfer of responsibility for EU coordination to his Department. [21419/11]

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the filling of the position of Secretary General of his Department. [24421/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the administrative changes which have been made to the coordination by him of EU policy within Government. [24705/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach which, if any, funding and other programmes have been or will be transferred to his Department following his reorganisation of its work. [24710/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he will outline all costs relating to the establishment and future running of the Office of the Tánaiste including the numbers of personnel to be assigned to the Office, the physical and support facilities to be made available to the Tánaiste from the Vote of the Department of An Taoiseach and the identity of the accounting officer for the office. [24711/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach the exact numbers of civil service personnel who will have been transferred to and from his Department as of the end of this year as a result of reorganisation. [24714/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff working in his Department at the end of 2008, 2009, 2010 and the projected number for the end of 2011. [24715/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff working in his Department who are on secondment from other Departments and the numbers of staff of his Department on secondment to other Departments. [24716/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach if any member of the staff of his Department reports primarily to another member of Government; and if so, if he will detail such cases. [24729/11]

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach if he will detail the specific process employed in receiving and considering applications for the posts of Secretaries General in his Department; and if he is satisfied with the process. [24732/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 13, inclusive, together.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is an awful lot of questions being taken together.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Most of them are in the name of the Deputy and they all are related.

The programme for Government states, "We will reduce the size of the Department of the Taoiseach, transforming it into the equivalent of a Cabinet Office that oversees the delivery of a new Programme for Government". Since taking office as Taoiseach and in keeping with that commitment, I have instituted a series of radical reforms to the operation of the Department of the Taoiseach.

Responsibility for public service modernisation and related industrial relations issues has been assigned to the new Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. As a consequence, 27 staff have transferred to that Department.

A new integrated European affairs division is being established within the Department of the Taoiseach. This will involve the transfer of approximately 19 staff from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade who will work alongside existing staff from my Department in the new integrated EU division. The new division will support me in my membership of the European Council, as well as supporting the Tánaiste in his responsibility for overall co-ordination of European policy, together with the Minister of State with special responsibility for European affairs and including the Tánaiste's membership of the General Affairs Council. It will secure more effective strategic direction and co-ordination across the whole of government in all matters related to the European Union. I anticipate that the incoming staff will be in place by 3 October and that the new arrangements will be fully operational from that date.

The Government has also agreed to establish an office of the Tánaiste within the Department of the Taoiseach. This office will have a small number of support staff and avail of physical and support facilities which will be provided by my Department. Both the staff and the support costs for the office will be provided at no additional cost from within the existing resources of my Department. The office will be fully operational in the coming weeks.

In parallel with the major restructuring of my Department, the Government has also made significant new management appointments. As I previously informed the House, it has appointed Ms Geraldine Byrne Nason as Second Secretary General in my Department. She will have responsibility for the management of an integrated EU co-ordination function, engaging with other Departments, as appropriate, reporting to me and the Tánaiste, as appropriate, in respect of our particular responsibilities at European level, and working with the Minister of State with special responsibility for European affairs, Deputy Creighton, in respect of her duties; managing support for the Government Economic Management Council which is chaired by me and reporting to the Tánaiste on matters relating to the council; and also managing the office of the Tánaiste within the Department of the Taoiseach, with responsibility for co-ordinating support for the Tánaiste in his whole-of-government responsibilities.

On my nomination, the Government appointed Mr. Martin Fraser as the new Secretary General to the Government and Secretary General of the Department of the Taoiseach with effect from 1 August. Mr. Fraser is the Accounting Officer for the Department of the Taoiseach. Both the Secretary General and the Second Secretary General are members of the staff of my Department. They will work with and, as appropriate, report to me and the Tánaiste, as I have explained. As Deputies will know from their own experience, this model has worked very successfully in the past, notably in respect of the Northern Ireland peace process and Ireland's last EU Presidency.

As I outlined to the House previously, the filling of the post of Secretary General to my Department, in accordance with established practice, was a matter for the Government and does not come within the remit of the Top Level Appointments Commission. Expressions of interest for the post were invited from civil servants and all suitable officers, whether they submitted an expression of interest, were considered before the Government made the appointments.

Although the details are not yet finalised, there are likely to be two new appointments to vacancies at assistant secretary level in my Department shortly. These posts will be fully open and advertised in the national newspapers. The selection will be conducted by the Top Level Appointments Commission which the Government has reformed to include an independent chairperson and a majority of members from outside the Civil Service.

The changes I have made, alongside the establishment of the new Government Economic Management Council, serve to strongly reinforce the strategic centre of government. I expect that the new management team in the Department will implement a number of further administrative changes in the coming months which will serve to supplement the strategic restructuring I have implemented and ensure the Department is modernised to meet the enormous challenges that the Government faces. These changes will focus on ensuring modern and effective mechanisms for implementing the programme for Government, the Cabinet Office model, and prioritising work on national priorities. They will draw on lessons learned from the recent past and international best practice. Tackling the economic crisis, with a particular focus on unemployment and jobs, will be of paramount importance. The new approach will be further elaborated on in the Department's new strategy statement and action plan under the organisational review programme. Both will be published before the end of the year. Apart from the changes I have outlined, it is not proposed to transfer any funding or other programmes to my Department.

There are six staff working in my Department who are on secondment from other Departments, while nine staff are on secondment from the Department of the Taoiseach to other public sector bodies. A number of staff in diplomatic grades in the new EU division will be seconded from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, while the general service staff will formally transfer to my Department.

The number of whole-time equivalent staff in my Department at the end of 2008 was 212. At the end of 2009 it was 198, and at the end of 2010 it was 191. Even following the transfer of significant numbers of staff to the new EU division, I expect that this figure will fall to approximately 187 by the end of the year.

The Department of the Taoiseach will fully comply with its obligations to make savings under the Croke Park agreement and also play its part in further reducing costs in the context of the decisions to be made by the Government against the background of the comprehensive review of expenditure which is under way and being conducted by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. Following completion of the radical changes under way, the Department will be able to fulfil its many important roles more effectively but with a smaller staff complement and budget than in recent years.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Of this group of 13 questions, 12 are in my name. Under Standing Orders, if they were to be asked separately, I would be entitled to speak for approximately 72 minutes. Obviously, I do not expect this to happen.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know where the Deputy got that idea from because he is not correct.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There are approximately four areas covered by the 12 questions in my name: the Taoiseach's promise concerning the staffing of the Department of the Taoiseach, the new office of the Tánaiste, the new arrangements for co-ordinating EU policy and the procedures for filling the post of Secretary General. I want to be able to deal with each of these and have enough of time to do so.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy need not worry, I will give him time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. You are in good form because of Sunday's developments.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Deputy is in better form than last week.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Actually, I am in very good form. Deputy Rabbitte has good experience of that kind of thing himself. The last time we discussed the structure and staffing of the Taoiseach's Department, the Taoiseach failed to inform the House that he would be moving an entire section from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade under his control. In the Taoiseach's pre-election speeches, in the Fine Gael manifesto and in the programme for Government the Taoiseach stated he would dramatically cut the Department of the Taoiseach in size. In interviews earlier this year the Taoiseach described himself as a straight talker. Will the Taoiseach now formally confirm that he is abandoning the promise to dramatically slim down the Department of An Taoiseach?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is Deputy Martin finished?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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We thought there was a hard question coming.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The answer to the question is "no". Question No. 4 is from Deputy Micheál Martin. It is to ask the Taoiseach if he is still plans to halve the size of his Department. If Deputy Martin listened to what I said he would have heard the first sentence of my reply, that is, the programme for Government states we will reduce the size of the Department of the Taoiseach. Deputy Martin's question relates to something he seems to have heard somewhere to the effect that the Taoiseach still plans to halve the size of his Department.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should go back over his manifesto.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What about the 25,000 civil servants?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My job is to implement the programme for Government and that is what we intend to do. The programme for Government is clear. It states that we will reduce the size of the Department of the Taoiseach. Deputy Martin referred to "dramatically cutting" and his question refers to a reduction in the Department of 50%. I have not abandoned anything and I do not know what Deputy Martin is blathering on about.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Let us consider the facts that the Taoiseach has just read out. There were 191 staff at the end of 2010 and now there are 187. That is a change of four people. It is about time we had some straight, honest talking here. We should stop the waffle, fudge and spin. If the Taoiseach will not be straight or clear about something he has announced himself through the figures, then when will he be clear about anything?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have been clear.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is not clear. He made all manner of ridiculous commitments during the election and before the election and he has abandoned them. The Taoiseach should acknowledge that he has abandoned them. That is all. There are no specifics in terms of the size of the office of an Tánaiste and how many staff are there and so on. I would appreciate if the Taoiseach could give us some real figures behind that office. The Taoiseach used the term "a small number of staff". Will he provide the actual number of staff who will be supporting the Tánaiste in that role?

In terms of the EU co-ordination the decision to transfer the entire European Union section of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to the Taoiseach's control is rather surprising given that co-ordination between the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Department of the Taoiseach was and always has been excellent. Indeed the 2004 EU Presidency was a model Presidency of the council and was described as such by all throughout Europe. The Taoiseach should explain why he has changed this successful formula. It seems to be a solution in search of a problem. I am keen to get the rationale behind the Taoiseach's decision because the EU section has a broader, wider and deeper integration throughout the entire operation of the diplomatic service. In practice our entire diplomatic service is focused on European matters and the sections in daily contact with our embassies in EU countries remain in the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The integration and co-ordination pertaining to Europe within the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade will be significantly undermined by the Taoiseach's decision to take the specific section dealing with EU matters out of the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade and land it in splendid isolation in the Department of the Taoiseach. I do not believe the Taoiseach has given a proper rationale for why he has decided to do that.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind the Deputy that this is Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking the Taoiseach to give a clear rationale for that decision. For some reason, the last time we discussed this even though it was under way then he did not alert the House to such a fundamental and substantial change in respect of that decision. The Taoiseach will create an extra barrier to an integrated EU approach from Government.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The answer to Deputy Martin's question is that the Office of the Tánaiste will be supported by a small secretariat of approximately two staff from within the current staff numbers. I will give Deputy Martin the rationale behind the other change. Perhaps his view is as someone who was in the Department of Foreign Affairs and did an extensive tour of duty. The problem is that the matter of the co-ordination in respect of European integration is better handled from the Department of the Taoiseach in the sense of being able to draw the requirements from every Department to ensure that happens. It is not a taking over of responsibilities from the Tánaiste or from the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs. It is merely the co-ordination of the European process which, as Deputy Martin correctly points out, now goes across every Department. This is why the appointment of the Second Secretary General to the Department of the Taoiseach will manage it from the Department of the Taoiseach in an effective way, working to the Tánaiste in respect of his responsibilities, to the Minister of State in respect of her responsibilities and to me as Head of Government in respect of my responsibilities. I see this as improving a position which, as Deputy Martin pointed out, during various EU Presidencies did well under challenging circumstances. I am keen to make it even better. For this reason we moved the general staff from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade into the section in the Department of the Taoiseach dealing with the co-ordination of European matters. That is the rationale behind it and I believe it will work effectively.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Given the transfer of the EU section to his control, why is the Taoiseach still transferring EU questions to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade and the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs will have responsibility for answering questions in respect of European issues. I am not suggesting taking over responsibility for all European matters but for the co-ordination of the way we proceed to deal with European issues. I find it to be more effective coming from the Department of the Taoiseach as distinct from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade in attempting to draw from all Departments the requirements needed. To put even greater emphasis on this approach the Government agreed to the appointment of a Second Secretary General in the Department of the Taoiseach with specific responsibility for managing that co-ordination and for dealing with the matters of the economic management council, reporting to the Tánaiste where appropriate and to me in respect of my responsibilities.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I wish to allow Deputy Higgins in for one moment. He has a question on the filling of the position of Secretary General.

4:00 pm

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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This looks suspiciously like a Fine Gael coup with regard to the management of EU affairs by the Government. Is this the case? Has the Taoiseach elbowed the Tánaiste out to deal with far flung areas such as North Korea and so on while in essence corralling the critical policy and EU matters among himself as a Fine Gael Taoiseach and a Fine Gael Minister for Finance aided and abetted by a Fine Gael Minister of State for European affairs? I will repeat the question which the Taoiseach did not really answer. How are the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade to co-ordinate intervention in critical EU matters? Will the Taoiseach explain this in greater detail and more clearly?

How many staff in the Taoiseach's Department and on the public payroll are doing constituency queries or like work? With regard to the secretary generalship of the Taoiseach's Department, what is the salary level of the new chief of the Department? In view of how outraged the public has been by the extent of the obscene payments to the predecessor, how does the Taoiseach justify continuing payment of such vast amounts to the tops of the public service when low and middle-income public sector workers are on the one hand struggling but on the other hand being tarred as if they were in the top echelons by the likes of Independent Newspapers and the rest?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have a question?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The co-ordination section within the Department of the Taoiseach is not focused just on the Department of Foreign Affairs as the Tánaiste and the Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs retain their responsibilities and this could involve the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food or the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation. All of these are now concerned directly with decisions that are being taken in Europe and by Europe in respect of directives and regulations and political issues.

The co-ordination of all of this is, in my view, more effective coming from the Department of the Taoiseach within the responsibilities I have in that regard, rather than having it situated in a specific Department. It is not a conspiracy, a coup or a takeover but merely a more effective co-ordination of the management of the affairs of Government across all Departments. That management can be more effective coming from the Department of the Taoiseach while the Ministers retain their responsibilities in so far as European affairs are concerned, in particular matters relevant to their portfolios and their Departments. The co-ordination of all of that is the reason I made this change.

The Deputy asked about the numbers doing constituency office work and their salaries. That matter is down for written answer today in response to a question from Deputy Ross, or perhaps another Deputy, which will be available to Deputy Higgins. The Deputy will be glad to know it has reduced from previous times and that, for higher public servants, these salaries have been capped at €200,000, in many cases having being reduced from €285,000, including a further voluntary contribution from €214,000 to €200,000. Of course, these are now being further reduced with the pension changes being brought in by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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It is still five times the average industrial wage.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was being somewhat disingenuous in saying it is just a co-ordination issue. Fundamentally, he has taken the entire EU section, which is not just a number of people doing co-ordinating work but is actually the core unit that led for the Department of Foreign Affairs on EU matters and which has now gone to the Department of the Taoiseach. This has fundamental implications for how the Department of Foreign Affairs works in regard to other international bodies such as the United Nations, the OSCE and a range of other international bodies which have a daily interaction with the EU section.

The Taoiseach has not explained how the diplomatic service will fit into this new operation. It may explain the disquiet from some of his Cabinet colleagues in terms of how quiet the Tánaiste has become at the Cabinet table. It may be due to the rationale that he is getting less and less to do if various units and sections are being taken from him.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That has nothing to do with the question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It has everything to do with it.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Cad faoi Labhrás?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a fundamental issue in terms of how that is playing out within-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Cá bhfuil Eamon? Tá sé an-chiúin, nach bhfuil?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach had considerable experience in June last year and he came out of it with flying colours. We all take lessons from time to time.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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They were not talking about founding another party.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the Secretary General, the Taoiseach said earlier there were previous terms and conditions. Will he confirm that the terms and conditions of the new Secretary General reflect those of his predecessor?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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While I do not want to interfere with Question Time, many of these matters relate to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They do. The appointments have been made under the arrangements of TLAC, the Top Level Appointments Committee, which have been in place since 1987. The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform is reviewing the nature of the structure of these appointments.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He said something different half an hour ago.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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He said something different earlier. This is the incredible spin the Taoiseach goes on with all the time.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy cool down and let the Taoiseach answer?

Photo of Charlie McConalogueCharlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is six months in Government.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I find Deputy Martin's comments about the Tánaiste completely off the wall.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They are not my comments. They were made by the Taoiseach's colleagues.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He is actually in New York speaking at the United Nations in respect of matters pertaining to the world outside and Ireland's situation in it. We will continue to do so in regard to other international issues. What I am talking about here is the more effective co-ordination of issues relating to the EU across all Departments. Obviously, all Ministers retain their responsibilities but the co-ordination of this will be managed by a Second Secretary General in the Department of the Taoiseach. I find that to be more effective.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I would like to move on.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked a specific supplementary question on the terms and conditions. Can I have a specific answer?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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These are questions for the Minister.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform took written questions on that issue today.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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From Deputy McDonald.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have a Minister to deal with this.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question No. 5 is "To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the filling of the position of Secretary General of his Department." That is the context in which I am asking.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question was asked by Deputy Joe Higgins.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but I am entitled to ask a supplementary question in regard to the Taoiseach's reply.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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He has already answered.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am entitled to ask a supplementary question in regard to the Taoiseach's reply.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I never thought Deputy Martin would be looking for assistance from the leader of the Socialist Party. I answered the question from Deputy Higgins in regard to the appointment of the Secretary General and the Second Secretary General.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, the Taoiseach did not.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Howlin, answered questions in written form today.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy McDonald.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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For the record, what salary is the Second Secretary General on? Will the Taoiseach clarify that for us?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot answer that question for the Deputy but I will have the details provided to her.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I answered a written question on that matter today.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I want it from the Taoiseach. This is Questions to the Taoiseach.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach does not have to answer for every Minister.

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He answered half an hour ago.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Sorry, a Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have to be reasonable.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach answered on this half an hour ago and made a specific comment. The hypocrisy of his response has been found out.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy cool down? Deputy McDonald is asking a question. I am just giving-----

Photo of Charlie McConalogueCharlie McConalogue (Donegal North East, Fianna Fail)
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We are just asking the Taoiseach to answer for his Department.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Taoiseach cannot answer for every single Minister. If there are detailed questions on matters of pay and so on-----

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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With all due respect, I believe the Taoiseach can give a full answer to a very clear question.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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With all due respect to the Deputy, it is my job to try to share the proceedings fairly on both sides. I want to ensure Deputies get proper answers. If they are asking a question and not getting a full answer, I suggest they put down a question to the appropriate Minister. That is my function. If the Taoiseach has the information and wants to give it to the Deputy, by all means he may do so.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Yes, he does.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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It is our function to question the Taoiseach in this section.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have no problem with that.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I find it strange, therefore, and wonder does the Taoiseach not know the answer to this question. If he does, he might share it with us.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have already said these are capped at €200,000 and the specific answer to Deputy McDonald's question is in written form because she asked a specific question of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. The Deputy will have it in the pigeon hole when she leaves the Chamber.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Therefore, it is the same as the one of which the Taoiseach washed his hands earlier. That is the point.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Do not talk to me about washing hands.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Order, please.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Economic Management Council will report to the Tánaiste. What is the mechanism for keeping the Dáil informed of the work of this group, or is there one?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Economic Management Council reports to me, as Taoiseach, and to the Tánaiste in the context of determining the issues with which the council has to deal. Decisions made at the Economic Management Council will go before Cabinet and, obviously, Cabinet matters and decisions are confidential. Of course, when Government makes decisions, they become public and Ministers answer for the decisions that are made and will continue to do so. It is not a case of outlining for the House what is the agenda for any Economic Management Council meeting or any other Cabinet committee. Once the Government receives reports, proposals or recommendations from any of those meetings or committees and makes decisions on them, they become public and are answerable to this House and to the people by Ministers and the Government as a whole.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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Therefore, there is no mechanism.