Dáil debates

Wednesday, 20 July 2011

10:30 am

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is our last Leaders' Questions before the Dáil rises for the summer recess. It comes on the eve of a critically important meeting for this country and for the future of Europe. We have talked in this House again and again about the fact that while Ireland has spent the past two years doing its bit, making the correct decisions and taking the corrective action to ensure recovery, Europe has consistently failed to appreciate or implement a comprehensive Union-wide approach.

On this side of the House we have watched as an agreed reduction in the interest rate on our loans slipped from Ireland's grasp in March but the Taoiseach still refuses to reveal the details of what we were offered via President Van Rompuy's compromise and what we were asked to do in return. We have heard the rhetoric about diplomatic offensives but listened with amazement as the Taoiseach confirmed he has not had one single substantive bilateral meeting with a eurozone leader since becoming Taoiseach.

We have been encouraged by some of the briefings that have come out of Europe this week, that they finally understand the need to get to grips with this crisis, but we discovered yesterday, in disbelief, that the Taoiseach has not spoken to a single leader in advance of tomorrow's crunch meeting. Can the Taoiseach explain how people are supposed to be reassured that Ireland is well placed to take advantage of this crunch meeting when he continues to maintain a hands off, hope it will work out approach to his dealings with other European leaders?

(Interruptions).

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I remind the Deputy on this last Leaders' Questions before the summer recess that the interest rate involved here is the interest rate that his Government signed off on.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is the first point. His Government signed off on that interest rate. On 11 March, the Council of European leaders decided that there should be an interest rate reduction in principle applied to countries in a bailout. That was a responsibility delegated to the Ministers for finance because the stress tests were not completed on the Irish banks at that time. As I pointed out to the Deputy previously, the issues now the central focus of discussion among European leaders are the issues that Ireland put on the table, that is, the entire question of the fund, its flexibility, maturity dates, interest rates and a number of other options. As we meet here this morning, the agenda for tomorrow's meeting of the eurozone leaders is under very active consideration. Officials from our country went to Brussels yesterday evening.

From that perspective when the Deputy asks a question about how can confidence be displayed here, I remind him that we did not ask to be in this loan repayment bailout situation.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is what his Government landed us in. Because the Government has made a series of decisions here, whether about banks, recapitalisation or the analysis currently being carried out by the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform in terms of the comprehensive spending review, we have brought about a situation where the European Parliament, the European Commission, the IMF, quite a number of European leaders and individual Commissioners have said that Ireland in its circumstances has met every one of the targets that have been set and has been ahead in a number of these. This was evidenced by the response of the troika last week to the situation that now obtains, for which the Deputy gallantly went on the plinth and took full credit last weekend. The Deputy is not shy about reminding us of who landed us in this mess in the first place.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy opposite should take responsibility for that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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From that perspective, I look forward to the meeting tomorrow. I hope that what comes out of tomorrow's meeting will be the start of a series of decisions taken by the eurozone leaders which will restore confidence and certainty, and deal with the issue of the legitimate anxiety and concern about contagion spreading from the Greek situation which simply must be dealt with. That is the focus of discussions today. From that perspective, I will speak to all of the eurozone leaders tomorrow when I have that opportunity to remind them of how this country has measured up against the conditions and the terms of the EU-IMF loan repayment situation, which are quite austere and challenging. From that perspective, the conditions set out are being met and that is a demonstration that a country in bailout circumstances, such as Ireland is, can meet its targets. I want to see that countries like ours which are in this situation are seen and will be seen to receive support from the European leaders.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The interest rate reduction was agreed more than four months ago by all of the Heads of State, as the Taoiseach came into office and the previous Government had teed all of that up. It had been formally agreed by the other Heads of State-----

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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It had teed up the entire country.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The previous Government agreed it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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For some reason the Taoiseach has confirmed in the House that he has put nothing on the table at the past two summits. He confirmed that in an answer he gave during Taoiseach's questions. For some reason he continues to dismiss requests-----

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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If the Deputy had any shame, he would be under the table.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to publish the Van Rompuy offer on the basis that it was a straightforward demand-----

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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We are tidying up the previous Government's mess.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to increase the corporation tax rate.

It is inconceivable to anyone following European affairs or who watched the media masterpiece of the Taoiseach's Gallic spat and that episode, that it was as simple as that. It is unacceptable that one has to go to the mechanism of freedom of information to get this very basic information in relation to-----

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Has the Deputy no sense of embarrassment?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----the publication of the Van Rompuy offer in regard to the interest rate on 11 March. The same people watching these proceedings will be scratching their heads again this morning at the fact that the Taoiseach continues to talk about diplomatic initiatives but he cannot and will not for some reason lift the phone to one single person who can influence and make decisions in regard to this country at tomorrow's summit.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Do not be ridiculous.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I asked the Taoiseach a question yesterday and I will try one more time. What is Ireland seeking tomorrow?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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To clean up the mess made by Fianna Fáil.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The meeting is taking place because the contagion from Greece is having an impact on the euro, Italy and Spain.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot hear what is being said.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the reason we are having the meeting. It is not because of anything the Taoiseach put on the table but because of Europe wide issues. Have we been clear that a deal on Greece is not enough? Are we saying to our colleagues across Europe that a restructuring of Greek debt will require that we also burn other bank bondholders?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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What was Deputy Martin doing last year?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Are we seeking agreement on burden sharing with bondholders, which we have been negotiating since the bailout was first put in place?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Where was the Deputy last year? It is as if he was never Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Taoiseach to outline for the House what Ireland is seeking at tomorrow's meeting. What are we putting forward to the other Heads of Government?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will tell the Deputy. Ireland is seeking to clean up the mess his party created.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Billy KelleherBilly Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)
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Chancellor Merkel loved the Taoiseach before the election but she will not speak to him now.

Photo of Dara CallearyDara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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Like Roscommon.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Time after time, Deputy Martin referred to the Gallic spat between President Sarkozy and me. He appears to assume that I should have gone to my first Council meeting, the day after the Government was appointed-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I merely want the Taoiseach to publish the offer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and concede a fundamental cornerstone of Irish inward investment policy, namely, the corporation tax rate.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is not what he was offered. He was offered something else but he will not tell us what it was.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is the point. He is refusing to tell the House.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If Deputy Martin does not appreciate what I told him, I will say it again.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is telling me nothing.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The concession of an interest reduction of 1% for countries in the EFSF bailout scheme, including Ireland, required the agreement of lending countries. One of those lending countries did not want to agree to it without Ireland taking on extra conditionality, namely, an increase in the corporate tax rate. I was not going to attend any meeting on behalf of this Government, the country or our people and concede that but this is what the Deputy appears to be referring to.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Colm KeaveneyColm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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That is what he wants.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I want him to publish the offer which he confirmed in the House he received.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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What has the Taoiseach done to assuage concerns?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Allow the Taoiseach to continue without interruption.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I ask the Taoiseach to answer my specific question. Will he publish it?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He appears to believe the kind of telephone diplomacy he pursued for the past 14 years, which landed us in this mess, should continue.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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One phone call.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will be discussing this matter later.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach spoke to nobody.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Remember this, the leaders of the countries of the European Union delegated responsibility for this matter to the Finance Ministers. Our Minister for Finance, in discharging his responsibility, put on the agenda the fact this was bad for this country and for Europe.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is unbelievable.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin's people either did not attend that meeting or, if they did, they spoke only about Ireland's narrow interests.

Photo of Colm KeaveneyColm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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They made a bad deal.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are way over time.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I share the concern of every person about improving this deal. What I want to see tomorrow is a series of decisions that will start to bring about certainty in the investing markets about Europe and this country.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Those are the Chancellor's words.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As has been pointed out by others, this will not reach a full conclusion tomorrow.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is plagiarising the Chancellor.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I hope it is the start of a process that will bring some certainty to the matter. Our country is measuring up to a set of austere challenges we were walked into by the party opposite in the middle of the night.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We can set about restoring a semblance of confidence-----

Photo of Barry CowenBarry Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach was going to turn us around in six weeks.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will he publish the offer?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and if that means decisions about the issues the Minister, Deputy Noonan, put on the table in terms of this fund, its flexibility-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will he publish the offer?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----its interest rates and its maturity dates, I will be very supportive and will engage comprehensively in tomorrow's discussions.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Adams.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will he publish the offer?

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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A sad case of hallucination.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can I have silence, please?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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When I questioned the Taoiseach yesterday-----

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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More spoofing.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please give Deputy Adams an opportunity to speak.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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When I questioned the Taoiseach about the claims of a Labour Party Minister in a Fine Gael Government that citizens on the dole are making a lifestyle choice, he seemed to suggest he had no choice other than what is Government is doing. He repeated that suggestion a minute ago. He does have choices, however. Is féidir leis an Taoiseach seasamh a dhéanamh, is féidir leis gealltanais an Rialtais a choinneáil agus is féidir leis fís a thaispeáint. Sinn Féin wishes him well at the European emergency summit but he cannot go there as an observer or a spectator. He can go there to do what he proposed in his five point plan. An gcuimhin leis an Taoiseach sin? Lest he forget, when cuts are needed they start at the top. When accountability is needed it starts at the top. When sacrifice is needed it starts at the top. It does not start with the blind, the carers or the poor. Today, however, because of the Taoiseach's choice the poor include people who are economically vulnerable. Does he agree the people we represent cannot afford to pay our European partners the outrageous sum of €10 billion in interest? Will he tell them that tomorrow? Will he bring his five point plan with him and stick to it by making the right choices on behalf of the people we represent?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I recall questions being asked on many occasions as to how Deputy Adams was able to travel around the world while he was on the dole.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Is that the only response the Taoiseach can offer?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does he remember those questions?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Shame on him.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It might have been a lifestyle choice at the time but I am not sure.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Answer the question. He is disgraceful.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not disgraceful.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could I have some order, please?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy had no income at the time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Taoiseach against all foreign travel now?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy had not been elected as a Member of Parliament, a Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly or a Teachta Dála. Be that as it may, I want the Deputy to understand this Government has for the past four months been changing the agenda that had previously been pursued in Europe. That agenda has changed through our diplomatic and political connections, as well as what we have been putting on the table about the need for Europe to change direction and deal with the European problem. That is why the central issues at tomorrow's emergency meeting of the eurozone countries deal with the issues put on the table by Ireland.

In general, we are attempting to have unemployed people engage with the system whereby retraining, upskilling and career opportunities can be made available for them. I want to see as many people as possible involved in gainful employment and because the situation is changing, there is a need for upskilling and retraining. That is as it should be and it is the focus of the Government. Arising from the comments made yesterday, I hope that when we return in the early autumn to discuss job initiatives and proposals that Opposition Members will have constructive ideas on how the Government can engage and make further changes rather than live in a land of unreality such as Deputy Adams has been putting forward.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Wherever I travelled in the interest of the Irish peace process, a process to which his Government objected-----

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Including to visit Gadaffi.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----or wherever I travelled in the interest of Irish unity and the freedom of our people, those who invited me picked up the tab. The Irish taxpayer did not pick up the tab. The Irish taxpayer is paying the Taoiseach to go to Europe and he avoided the question. It is a simple and straightforward matter. We are paying €10 billion in interest to our European partners but we cannot afford it.

The Government took €700 million out of health services and put approximately the same amount into the unguaranteed bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank. Riddle me this: why is the Government taking money out of essential health services and putting it into banks when it is not obliged to do so? It was a choice because they were not guaranteed. The Taoiseach cannot blame anybody else. Of course, these guys on the benches beside me made the mess. They are not going to a European summit but the Taoiseach is.

Photo of Colm KeaveneyColm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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What is the Deputy's idea? It is their bailout.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach will represent all of us. If the Labour Party would be so-----

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Could we have some order, please?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please give Deputy Adam an opportunity to make his point.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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If the Labour Party Deputies were as loud in their protest about what is happening to vulnerable people in the State-----

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Sandra McLellanSandra McLellan (Cork East, Sinn Fein)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----as they are in heckling me when I am trying to make a sensible point------

Photo of Arthur SpringArthur Spring (Kerry North-West Limerick, Labour)
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It is easy for the Deputy.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams should put his question.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Government cannot-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please allow the Deputy to contribute, without interruption.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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No Deputy, especially those in government, can ignore the social consequences of the lifestyle choices being made by the Government. I will again put a simple question. Will the Taoiseach make this outrageous €10 billion interest rate issue the focus of the summit? He should put it on the agenda and tell our partners we cannot pay it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Then what?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Instead of going off on holiday, the Taoiseach should return to the House on Friday to account for his stewardship.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have no intention of leaving the country on holiday this summer.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Neither do I.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is important to provide certainty on that issue.

Photo of Martin FerrisMartin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is coming to County Kerry.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Why does he not go to County Roscommon?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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If the Deputy wishes to find me, he can come to the mountains of County Kerry and I will be happy to accommodate him.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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What about County Roscommon? Is the Taoiseach going there?

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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He could go to County Roscommon and not come back.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government has already agreed to burden sharing to a figure of €5 billion with subordinated bondholders. The Deputy mentioned interest rate repayments; that is with what the people concerned landed the country. That is what we have been saying.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Where is the change?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is a bad deal for Ireland and Europe. After a number of months of changing the agenda, the issue will come to a head in part at least tomorrow when the matter will be discussed by the eurozone leaders.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Last week the Taoiseach said he was grateful for the deal.

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is important to say the Deputy seems to believe he can turn his back on this issue, walk away from it and leave it behind. The next time he comments I will invite him to tell us how he would deal with an €18 billion deficit when he would not be closing beds in hospitals but entire hospitals. There would be nothing with which to pay gardaí, teachers, nurses or other public servants. He has not made any constructive suggestion on how the gap might be bridged.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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For example, Sinn Féin stated about the Fianna Fáil manifesto of 2011------

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We did not.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that the Government had no plan to reduce the deficit-----

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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That is the Taoiseach's guys.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----that it had a plan to reduce spending-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In fairness, he adopted that package.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----and that its plan would damage the economy, rather than facilitate recovery, yet in Northern Ireland it proposed a reduction of £4 billion in public expenditure, revenue-raising proposals amounting to £1 billion and an increase in household rates.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Another cut, Gerry.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There cannot be two approaches across the line.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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He is not making it up.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy cannot always ride two horses at the one time.

Photo of Dinny McGinleyDinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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Two approaches for up there and down here.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The focus of the Government is on a lifestyle choice for people to have jobs and be engaged in productive work in this economy and we will go to the European Union tomorrow to contribute to the debate and keep the focus where it should be placed in changing the nature of the deal to ensure flexibility in terms of the rates applying from the fund to a country such as Ireland. The country is measuring up and must be seen to be receiving support from our European counterparts. I will make this argument very strongly tomorrow at the meeting.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, the Taoiseach should know the British Government-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams should resume his seat.

Photo of Dinny McGinleyDinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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Sinn Féin has its own Ministers. The party is not a puppet.

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Blame the Brits.

Photo of Colm KeaveneyColm Keaveney (Galway East, Labour)
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Those Brits.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Joe Higgins.

Photo of Dinny McGinleyDinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy could blame Lloyd George while he is at it.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies will be on holiday from tomorrow, but in the meantime we should get on with the business of the House.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The baron wants to make another contribution.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Perhaps the Taoiseach might reconsider his holiday plans because some would benefit from his leaving the country for an extended period this summer.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Where is the script Joe?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Minister should not invite comment.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Good man, Joe.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He needs a script.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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If the Taoiseach took most of his backbenchers with him, we might get more done in the House.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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What is the topic of monumental outrage today?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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It must be monumental.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Could we get on to the script, Joe?

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Back to the script. We might miss out on the joke.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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For nearly-----

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Anything but the 44,000.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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The Minister of State was not in Hyde Park last Sunday.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies should give it a break and please allow Deputy Joe Higgins make his point.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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For nearly five months the Taoiseach has been implementing utterly immoral and unjust economic policies dictated by the IMF-EU memorandum-----

Photo of Emmet StaggEmmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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There were better alternatives I suppose.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----forcing ordinary people in this country to salvage the European banks and speculators from their reckless participation in the Irish property market.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Should we walk away?

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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The agents of the speculators are the European Union and the IMF, while the Government is their enforcer in ravaging the living standards and hitting the employment prospects of the people. The memorandum dictates that in the fourth review by the end of the year under the heading of fiscal consolidation there shall be a property tax. It contains proposals for a water charge in 2012 and 2013. We hear the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is going to the Cabinet shortly with what will be called a utility charge. As Head of the Government, will the Taoiseach clarify the policy? Will the household utility charge be in addition to a property tax, or is it another name for that tax and will it replace it? Is the household utility charge meant to cover a water charge as a catch-all in the sense that the people can be soaked under whatever brand name is required? Will it be in addition to a water charge? Are we talking about one, two or three new taxes and charges to be implemented next year by the Government as part of this disastrous proposal to salvage speculators? There should be clarity on the matter.

Photo of Brian HayesBrian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy wants clarity after all that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He left on an enforced holiday, as he did not like Brussels, and was lucky enough to return.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach has a few like that.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Speculation causes confusion, as the Deputy knows.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is Gay Mitchell.

Photo of Timmy DooleyTimmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister, Deputy Coveney, is good enough.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies should quieten down.

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Who brought Gay Mitchell back?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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May we hear the Taoiseach's response?

Photo of Tom HayesTom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Steady, Mattie.

Photo of Michael RingMichael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy McGrath is close to that point himself.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He could be a leader soon.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The memorandum of understanding-----

Photo of Mattie McGrathMattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)
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Next year.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----was an agreement signed off on by an Irish Government and voted on by the Irish Parliament and is now binding on us. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government will bring his memorandum to the Government which will make a decision on the issue of household charges and water metering to bring certainty to the issue. People will know in advance, without further confusion or speculation, what will be involved. Certainty will come from the Government's decision when the Minister brings his memorandum to the Cabinet. Being in government is about making decisions and being decisive. We will act in the interests of everybody.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Is that clear?

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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As the Head of the Government, the Taoiseach must provide clarity in this regard.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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No decision has yet been made.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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What is the policy? Will there be one, two or three new taxes to hit hard-pressed taxpayers and ordinary people?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is willing us to fail.

11:00 am

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Is the Taoiseach aware that if a charge is made under one heading or three, the effect on living standards will be same? Is he aware that there will be mass opposition to the imposition of these new burdens? Is he aware that taxpayers are openly saying they cannot afford new charges on water and that, therefore, it will be a question of "cannot pay, will not pay"? It will be a case of people power and there will be a campaign in opposition to this proposal.

How will the Taoiseach deal with the growing anger in society in response to people being made scapegoats at his behest to salvage the big European bankers? He refused to take the field at the Connacht final last Sunday because he was too ashamed to face the people of County Roscommon whom he betrayed with his false promises. How will he react next year when he faces major opposition in every city and town he visits-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy is willing the country to fail.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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-----from people who simply cannot afford the new taxes and charges to be imposed?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He is willing chaos upon us.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Will the Taoiseach tell the EU establishment tomorrow that the people, through their representatives and spokespersons, are saying they cannot afford to carry the burden of the European speculators anymore?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy wants the economy to collapse. What will happen then?

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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That will be the message of the people when these new taxes are introduced.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Deputy is losing his touch. He is all over the shop.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not sure he would have measured up to the teams I trained and played for in times gone by. I never mix sport and politics. I am glad the team was able to win a good sporting game without my presence. If the Deputy wants clarity, the position is that the memorandum of understanding is clear on the introduction of a site value tax and a charge for water arising from water metering. The Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government is working on these two issues. When he issues his memorandum on them, the Government will make a decision to bring certainty and clarity to the matter and end the Deputy's anxiety and concerns about it.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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There will be two taxes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The memorandum of understanding from which Deputy Joe Higgins quoted is very clear. He should read it again. The Government will make a clear decision on these two elements of the memorandum of understanding.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Where does the utility charge come in?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We will do this when the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government brings his memorandum to the Cabinet. That might happen at next week's meeting or afterwards. It is on its way. It will be very clear and certain and end the Deputy's confusion.

Photo of Michael McNamaraMichael McNamara (Clare, Labour)
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He can make the placards now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I hope that will put his mind at ease.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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He can start a campaign.