Dáil debates

Tuesday, 19 July 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions

Constitutional Amendments

2:30 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach if he has put in place or plans to place any administrative arrangements to facilitate the consultation by him and officials of his Department with party leaders concerning constitutional amendments similar to those followed, for example, in all recent referendums concerning the European Union. [21078/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Work is proceeding in my Department on the preparation of proposals for a referendum on the abolition of the Seanad. When these proposals are ready, they will be considered by the Government. The proposal to abolish the Seanad was signalled by the Government parties prior to the general election and the programme for Government contains a commitment to put this question to the people in a referendum. The Dáil and Seanad will have an opportunity to fully debate the necessary legislation, when it is published.

Proposals for the referendums on the other constitutional amendments promised in the programme for Government are being prepared by the relevant Ministers. Party leaders will be consulted after the relevant Bills have been drafted.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is a serious issue because on all European Union treaty Bills the Opposition have been consulted, including, for example, the 2001, 2002 and 2004 referendums and other matters. There has always been prior consultation with the Opposition. As far back as 1996, the rainbow coalition consulted on divorce. For at least one and a half decades, various Governments have adopted the approach of consulting the Opposition on constitutional amendments. This is based on the solid idea that when it comes to fundamental change, in other words, change in the fundamental laws of the land, there should be an attempt to achieve agreement or as much consensus as possible across the political divide.

It has been more than three months since the Government briefed us that three constitutional amendments would be put to the people in October. This is the last week of the this session in the House. The Taoiseach promised consultation on these amendments. At this stage, the only people who have not been consulted on these amendments or on the wording of the amendments, for example, on judicial pay, are those in the Opposition. There has been no consultation. On Sunday there was a further leak about the text of two referendums being agreed this week. Again, this took place without consultation. How does the Taoiseach believe this fits with the commitment to increase the role of the Dáil? Can the Taoiseach explain how these three amendments will get proper consideration by the Oireachtas with so little time left between when the Dáil resumes in the autumn and the October timeline? These changes are fundamental to the role of the Oireachtas. Without precedent the Oireachtas has been marginalised in terms of its role in these amendments and the proposals for amendment to the Constitution to be held in October.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Last week, Deputy Martin's phrase was that the Oireachtas was being subverted. We will deal with that when we come to a further question. Now, the Deputy maintains the Oireachtas is being marginalised. Today in the House of Commons, a committee is dealing with issues about phone hacking in News International because it is in a position to do that. The fact is that for 14 years nothing was done in this House about accountability in respect of Dáil committees.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That has nothing to do with it.

3:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That is why we are holding two referendums, one to deal with whistleblowers and one to deal with the consequences of the Abbeylara inquiry so those elected to the House by the people from all parties will have the authority of a referendum, if the people so decide to pass it, to call witnesses before it by compulsion, as many of them should, to answer questions about their conduct and the expenditure of public resources and so on.

That is a deliberate decision by the Government to allow for this House to be able to do its job. The Deputy's party did nothing about that for 14 years.

The third referendum to be held in October deals with the question of judicial pay. As the Deputy is aware, it is very important to highlight the difference between the Executive and Judiciary and to retain that independence. At a time of national challenge, this matter should be dealt with by the people.

In respect of the Lisbon referenda, the Deputy's question asks if the Taoiseach has put in place or plans to put in place any administrative arrangements to facilitate the consultation by him and officials of his Department with party leaders. In respect of the referenda on Europe, there was no administrative position.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There was.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There was not, and I had that confirmed by the international affairs division. There was consultation-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I consulted everyone.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but it was for information sharing only.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the Deputy saying my information is incorrect?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In that case, we will deal with that. The international affairs division of my Department confirmed to me that no administrative arrangements were put in place for consultations with the party leaders. We will check that as a matter of veracity. My understanding is that these were for information purposes only.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I met you with the outgoing Taoiseach.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please, Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yes, but these were for information purposes only. In respect of these issues here, I am not going to get into an interminable wrangle with Deputy Martin or anybody else about wording. The Government will produce the draft Bills. I have no problem in consulting Deputy Martin, the other leaders, the Technical Group or anybody else about the issue that is at stake but I do not want to get and I have no intention of getting into a long dialogue about this or that wording.

The work is proceeding in the Department of Justice and Equality about the judicial pay referendum and, in respect of the other two referenda on whistleblowers and Abbeylara, with the Attorney General. As soon as they are drafted, I have no problem in consulting the leaders. I recognise this has to be done in September in order to hold the referenda in October in conjunction with the presidential election.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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First, the Taoiseach was wrong in his original remarks-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not conversation; this is Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I know. I was going to put it to the Taoiseach-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Ask a supplementary question, please.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am putting a question to the Taoiseach, which is important.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not need an introduction.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We do, actually-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We do not.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----to set the scene and the context for the question. Of course, we do.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, you should read the Standing Order.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is logical. I have been here for many years and I have witnessed this exchange between Taoiseach and leaders of the Opposition. It is important that I set the context to ask the question.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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No, it is not.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is not a play Deputy Martin is in.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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All I simply say is that for the past decade and a half there was always consultation in terms of constitutional referenda. That is the point I am making. It is not true to say there has not been consultation. There has been - always. In regard to Lisbon, which you raised, do you not remember-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Your question asks what administrative positions were put in place to assist that consultation.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Could we have this discussion through the Chair?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I had to ask the questions from over there.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Do you not remember, being in your current office-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Listen, Deputy-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am asking whether you remember-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Supplementary questions elucidate further information. They are not statements.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I put the question for a very express purpose, namely, to try to get the Taoiseach at least to consult the Opposition.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Well, ask it then. If he says "No", then-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I cannot think why you are interrupting every single second. I should be allowed at least-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am obliged to interrupt when you are not in accordance with Standing Orders.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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A Cheann Comhairle, you are trying to dictate how I ask the question.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am not dictating. I am applying Standing Orders.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was not-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You will not speak to me like that.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will apply Standing Orders when they have to be applied.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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With the greatest of respect-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Put your question or I will ask you to resume your seat.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am putting the question but I am being interrupted consistently by you, a Cheann Comhairle.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Withdraw that remark.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please put the question. There are other Deputies in this House who want to ask questions.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I regret to have to say that.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You do not own Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have tabled questions legitimately. They are on the Order Paper as they are.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please put your supplementary question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I was hardly standing for 30 seconds when you interrupted.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes. You are supposed to ask a supplementary question to elucidate further information.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is fair play on both sides, a Cheann Comhairle. I have been extremely constructive and responsible here. If you contrast how I have performed here-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will not take lectures from you.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am not lecturing. I am just asserting my own position.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please put your supplementary question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am just asserting my own position as Leader of the Opposition, as I am entitled to do. I will do that. I will not be rolled over.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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You are a Deputy like every other Deputy-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I certainly am. I am the leader of a political-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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-----and you will apply Standing Orders like every other Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am the leader of a political party.

Photo of Dara MurphyDara Murphy (Cork North Central, Fine Gael)
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A very small one.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have tabled questions. I am entitled to table them and-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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So are other Deputies.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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They will get their chance.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are 15-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I will facilitate that. I will not be long about this at all.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are 18 questions to the Taoiseach and we are on Question No. 4.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have no intention of-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are 35 minutes into Question Time.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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We are indeed.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please put your supplementary question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If I am allowed to so do, I certainly will.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Get on with it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I did not ask the Taoiseach to have a long series of dialogues or an interminable dialogue with the Opposition.

Photo of Simon HarrisSimon Harris (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Ask the question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is a big difference between a long dialogue and no dialogue.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy put his supplementary question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On the question I wish to put to the Taoiseach, he mentioned the separation of powers. That is a fundamental issue in a democracy. Does the Taoiseach not think that at a minimum, on a question as fundamental as the separation of powers, he should already have initiated dialogue with the Opposition in respect of judicial pay? Dialogue has been initiated with the media which has received briefings on the content of that referendum.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Taoiseach reply to the supplementary?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Does the Taoiseach not accept there should have been consultation with the Opposition on the issue of judicial pay? I do not refer to the pay reduction itself but to the question of the separation of powers, which is a critical issue for any democracy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I have no problem about maintaining the separation of powers that exists and have no intention whatsoever of interfering in any way, good, bad or indifferent, with the independence of the Judiciary which, by and large, has served our country and democracy well. The Deputy's question, he was very exact about questions last week, was:

To ask the Taoiseach if he has put in place or plans to place any administrative arrangements to facilitate the consultation by him and officials of his Department with party leaders concerning constitutional amendments.

His question is about administrative arrangements and no administrative arrangements were ever put in place for any referendum-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is playing semantics.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----other than me asking questions from the Opposition benches or Deputy Gilmore so doing as leader of the Labour Party.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, I had meetings with the Taoiseach and Deputy Gilmore.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Moreover, when we did go to the Department of the Taoiseach with Deputy Martin, not that we got very much information-----

Photo of Bernard DurkanBernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Hear, hear.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Opposition parties got a full hearing. Taoiseach, that is not true.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No administrative facility was put in place other than to ask whether we were prepared to consult. I am prepared to consult with Deputy Martin and the other leaders-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is unfair and not true. Deputy Gilmore knows this.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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-----when the Bills have been drafted. Work is proceeding in the Department of Justice and Equality on the question of the referendum on judicial pay and in the Office of the Attorney General in respect of whistleblowers and the Abbeylara judgment. Moreover, the latter two questions are being asked deliberately of the people to give the Oireachtas the power to be accountable and to hold people responsible for their actions. There have been so many tribunals over the years and had compulsory powers of attendance been in place and had the question regarding the Abbeylara judgment been dealt with properly, many of them may not have been necessary at all.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams, a brief supplementary.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know about the other parties in opposition but one almost feels as though one is intruding on a domestic row when one comes in after the rí rá between these two parties. It is of no interest to me, except for academic and historical reasons, what happened before now.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy could go back down that path too far.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Bear with me please. What is important-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, I ask the Deputy please to put his supplementary question.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has a big interest in what happened.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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He should not go down that road too far.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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What is important is there has been no consultation. On one particular pressing issue for this State and across this island at this time, namely, the issue of children's rights, into which my party put a great deal of work under the leadership of Deputy Ó Caoláin, we were not consulted. Moreover, to my knowledge none of the other party leaders was consulted on any of the referendums and this is a pressing issue.

Photo of Paul KehoePaul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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And then you got rid of him.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Gabh mo leithscéal.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please Deputy, through the Chair.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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This is part of the problem a Cheann Comhairle.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I know.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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That is the Government Chief Whip, who is interrupting me as I try to put a question.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask him to remain silent. The Deputy should please proceed.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I remember reading many times, when the Taoiseach was on the Opposition benches and his party was much smaller, of his advocacy of political reform and reform of the Dáil.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry Deputy, will you please put your question?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I thought the Taoiseach was very serious but I see no evidence of that intent manifesting itself, given the way business is being done at present, particularly on the issue of constitutional referendums, about which my party and the other parties should have been consulted on how the Government intended to proceed.

Photo of Ray ButlerRay Butler (Meath West, Fine Gael)
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Believe me Deputy Adams, we will.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand where the Deputy is coming from. The nature of his question is on how the Government intends to proceed. It intends to draft the legislation that is required for the three referendums to be held in October and once that drafting has been completed, to consult with the Opposition leaders fully and completely about the Bills in question. This is how the Government intends to proceed. In respect of the referendum on children's rights, the Deputy will recall that before he entered this House, there was a great deal of discussion about this issue. An Oireachtas committee performed very valuable work and produced an agreed wording. The previous Attorney General did not agree with that wording and recommended changes. This means, to be fair about this because it is such a sensitive and complex matter, that it will not be possible to have it decided in October of this year, together with the other referendums. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is now dealing with this matter and is working with the Attorney General. That referendum will be held next year. We want to get it absolutely right because there are very complex arguments on either side. While the Oireachtas committee produced an agreed wording this was not acceptable to the then Attorney General leading to a limbo which must be dealt with.

The Deputy can be assured that there is no question of there being a secret agenda because this is in the interests of everyone in the country. As soon as we get to a point where there is a conclusion on the wording and the Bill is drafted, there will be consultation with the Opposition. There is no point in Deputy Adams and I having three months' discussion about something that has already been discussed interminably. We need to arrive at a conclusion on what can and should be put to the people and this is our focus.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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It is a matter of "when I say so" of the Opposition having its say on priorities and urgent issues and there is no more urgent and priority issue at this time than the fact that children do not have legislative rights as they should.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy forgets to mention that for the first time in our history, this Government has appointed a Minister for Children and Youth Affairs with senior Cabinet rank. She is now dealing with the sensitive and very personal issue and I regard this as a signal as to how this Government views our young people and the part they have to play as they accept responsibility in the years ahead. The Minister for Children and Youth Affairs is now dealing with the question of the children's rights referendum. I am not a constitutional lawyer but given that all the parties agreed on a wording which for whatever reason the previous Attorney General did not agree with, this matter has had to take a step back. I hope we can get to a point where we can have agreement on the wording to be put to the people and that the referendum can be held next year. When I was sitting where Deputy Martin now sits I asked on many occasions as to when the Government intended to hold that referendum. It was promised on umpteen occasions but never got within sight of ballot boxes.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation is drafted.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I know there were difficulties. It is in our interests to reach a conclusion and I strongly support it.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, only two minutes remain. I am aware that the next question to be answered has been grouped with other questions. By the time the Taoiseach will have finished, there will not be an opportunity for Deputies to ask supplementary questions. It would be wise if the House agreed to delay those questions until tomorrow.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputies can put their swords back in their scabbards.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is that agreed?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That is a very reasonable suggestion.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams has two questions in that group.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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May I ask a final question? Is the Taoiseach satisfied that the Referendum Commission will be in a position to do its work in a timely manner to put these issues to the people?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As regards the October referenda, the answer is Yes.