Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 9: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform the name of his external consultants; if they are being paid at an hourly rate or temporary contract basis; the amount they are being paid; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [20371/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Government is intent on bringing about real and lasting public service reform and detailed implementation plans are being developed by my Department that will encompass the commitments to public service reform in the programme for Government. Three consultants from Deloitte Ireland and Accenture Ireland have been retained on a contract basis to assist my Department in regard to the development of these plans. Under the contract, the companies are reimbursed with the costs for the consultants on a cost-recovery basis. The total cost per month is a maximum of €24,195 plus VAT and the contract will last for no more than three months.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Why are consultants from the private sector regarded as having special qualifications in public sector reform? The EU and IMF seem to be dictating what is happening in terms of so-called public sector reform, although I believe they are simply savaging our public services. What is the precise point of bringing in consultants given that the EU-IMF deal dictates our actions?

While there is a slaughter of jobs in the public sector as a result of the recruitment embargo and cutbacks are imposed, are opportunities not opened up for private for-profit companies to move into the public sector space? Is this not symptomatic of what is occurring? Is this not what the reform is really about?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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No. The Deputy is absolutely wrong. I do not know whether he got the same message on the doorsteps as I got during the last general election campaign. For the first time in my political career, I noted that the demand and clamour for fundamental reform was almost as pronounced as the dismay over our economic collapse. People want fundamental institutional reform of politics, public administration, the civil service and the way in which we deliver services. This is why both parties that form the Government were determined to have reform at the heart of their agenda. We established for that purpose and for the first time a specific Department responsible for reform.

We did a lot of work on this. I prepared a document when I was in opposition last year containing 150 specific reform proposals. I realised that, in order to bring about reform, one must control expenditure. All the advices we received suggested this. I received very good advices from Deputy Calleary, who was very much a reformist in his time as Minister of State. He told me we need to have a different structure, one that will involve control of expenditure.

Why are we bringing in external help? Even those who work with me on devising reform plans say one needs somebody with experience of implementation. I want people who have experience of implementation of institutional reform to drive an agenda that is not a theory or something merely talked about as so many reform proposals have been talked about in the past. The Deputy should judge me, my Department and the Government over time to determine whether we will bring about real reform. He should not expect it all in four months.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I agree that people want public sector reform and social reform generally. However, is the real source of their anger not the massively overpaid top civil servants, politicians, bankers, who are now effectively public servants because they are paid pretty much with public money, and executives in the private sector, including those in private consultancy firms, etc.? People want reform to reduce the massively excessive salaries of those at the top of both the public and private sectors. Some are earning five to ten times what is earned by the ordinary worker, be he or she in the private or public sector.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The vast majority of public sector workers earn nothing like the salaries to which the Deputy is referring, as he knows. Only a relatively small number of people earn big salaries in the public service. The first thing I did when I became Minister was reduce them considerably, by up to 30% and 40% in some instances. This is important but it is not the most important factor. It does not save a huge amount of money because the numbers involved are relatively small in the overall expenditure picture. What is much more important is that we continue to deliver services that people want in the areas of health and education and deliver social services in a way that is meaningful for people. People see waste and services delivered badly. They, including those delivering services on the ground, want services to be delivered better. This is what reform is about. It is a daunting and difficult task that probably will not be completed in one term of government but I am determined to put a structure in place with the plan to drive change that will be visible on the ground to people who are dependent on services.