Martin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Question 6: To ask the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if public service outputs, identified for outsourcing by Department heads on completion of the comprehensive review of expenditure, will be consistent with the Service Delivery Options Principles of the Croke Park Agreement. [20333/11]

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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In line with the programme for Government, a comprehensive review of expenditure is under way across all Departments with a focus on what services the public service should provide and also how these services can be best delivered. This review will undoubtedly lead to changes in the way in which some services are delivered. The Government will make decisions on the outcome of the review in the context of the Estimates and budget of 2012. In this context, outsourcing, in appropriate circumstances, is just one of the many options available. There are many public services where the use of outsourcing would not be appropriate or the most efficient or effective way of delivering the service, and, as such, we are fully aware of the need to consider all of the possible implications.

The Government is committed to compliance with the terms of the public service agreement 2010-14. In an appendix to the agreement on service delivery options, it is recognised that some new or existing services will be provided on an outsourced basis. The appendix provides that, in advance of a decision being taken by management to proceed with outsourcing of an existing service, an evaluation will be undertaken with a view to determining whether the service can continue to be carried out in-house through service changes, having regard among other things to overall cost, quality of service, effectiveness and the public interest. In the event that management decide to proceed with outsourcing, commitments are given in relation to ongoing consultation with staff representatives and to job security and protection of employment terms of existing staff.

The Government's overall objective is to ensure that the cost of delivering public services is reduced further and that the public service becomes leaner, better integrated, more efficient and more effective. I am happy that the terms of the appendix to the Croke Park agreement will allow for efficient and effective delivery of public services, either directly or on an outsourced basis, while ensuring the concerns of public servants affected are taken into account.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I thank the Minister for that answer. This question is interesting because not long ago the Secretary General of the Minister's Department wrote a letter or a memorandum to heads of Departments urging them to do things that "go beyond the Croke Park agreement". Those of us here have not had sight of that correspondence although it is clear Martin Wall from The Irish Times had. I do not know the Minister's view on his senior staffer writing such a letter, and I wonder if the Minister has seen it, but it sounded alarm bells in my head that the proposition would be made from so senior a figure to move beyond the Croke Park agreement. We need an absolute assurance from the Government that insists on delivery in terms of the Croke Park agreement that it will respect the parameters of the Croke Park agreement. It appears from the correspondence from the Minister's Secretary General that that is not the case. Can the Minister give us some reassurance on that matter?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I have indicated already that the Government has accepted the Croke Park agreement. We will live up to our side of it. As I have indicated to the House, there is conditionality in that regard. We want an array of options available to us to ensure the review is truly comprehensive. I want people to think outside the box with ideas that I am happy to bring to the unions and to the management. I have begun my discussions with the implementation group in the abstract in terms of saying we will engage with it in regard to the outcome of the comprehensive review of expenditure. I have a simple view on this matter. Every citizen of Ireland - public servant and private worker - has an interest in this country succeeding and we all have an interest in getting the best value we can for the tax we spend.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has dodged the issue. I do not doubt his commitment to recovery but we understand the most senior official in the Minister's newly established Department has written to line Ministers-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Secretaries General.

Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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-----suggesting that they cook up different proposals beyond the Croke Park agreement. Does the Minister not find that alarming, because I do? Would the Minister publish that memorandum or letter?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Deputy uses nice pejorative terms like "cook up". The letter was to Secretaries General asking people to engage in the process in an open way. In the spirit of transparency, the Deputy asked me if I would publish the letters. I will. I will arrange within the next few days to have them put on my website for the Deputy to examine.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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In so far as the Minister is considering the use of outsourcing agency workers, will he confirm that agency workers are being used in peak hours for processing medical cards at the centre in Finglas? In those circumstances, is the Minister quantifying the cost of using agency workers as against direct employment by public servants? Also, in his comprehensive spending review are such costs and the extra burden on the social welfare system as a result of greater levels of unemployment and the public sector recruitment embargo factored in? Can the Minister tell us the savings that will result from this?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will tell the Deputy what the savings are when the savings are adduced and we have the process under way and done. I read out in my reply what is in the public service agreement and its appendix which requires consultation on all these matters and proper evaluation, down to the public interest evaluation. All the Deputy's concerns will be taken into account but we will do things that are efficient. I will not approach it in an ideological way, as the Deputy sometimes does. It is to determine what is efficient, what is good, and what would provide the best front-line service for people. I hope it will be new services as well and that it will not be a case of saying something was done in the past. I hope it will be new services that can be done in a different way. We are examining a range of different ways of providing better services to people as efficiently and effectively as possible.