Dáil debates

Tuesday, 7 June 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions

Departmental Staff

2:30 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he will provide a progress report on the halving of the size of his Department as committed in the Programme for Government; and the steps he has taken regarding same. [13620/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy is correct in his assumption. The programme for Government is quite clear in regard to the reduction of the size of the Department of the Taoiseach:

We will reduce the size of the Department of An Taoiseach, transforming it into the equivalent of a Cabinet Office that oversees the delivery of a new Programme for Government.

At the end of January this year, 189 staff were employed in my Department and at the end of May, 166 were employed. Sections and posts in my Department which had been engaged in work that now comes within the responsibility of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform have transferred to that Department. Arrangements are being made for the transfer of some support staff. The total number of staff involved is approximately 25. There will be further restructuring of my Department following the forthcoming appointment of a new second Secretary General post.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I refer to the new politics document of some months ago which contained fairly strong commitments to significantly reducing the size of the Department of the Taoiseach and also to increasing accountability. We are looking at downsizing and to a certain extent what we perceive to be a reduction of accountability of the Department of the Taoiseach. I dealt with this matter last week with regard to the establishment of the Cabinet sub-committees. The Fine Gael new politics document said that the Department of the Taoiseach would be converted into a Cabinet office-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Sorry, Deputy, the question relates to the programme for Government.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, and I am dealing with that.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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That would be a first for the Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I see Deputy Buttimer is back.

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I have not gone away.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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His presence at my side during Question Time-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not like interrupting a speaker but-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Is it the Taoiseach's intention to relocate responsibility for European affairs to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, as indicated? He referred to the idea of turning the Taoiseach's Department into a Cabinet office to oversee the delivery of a new programme for Government. We do not see that transformation happening or the delivery of a new programme for Government. Has the Taoiseach any idea of what will be the final configuration of the Department of the Taoiseach when he has finished the various reforms he has articulated? Some would say the Taoiseach has taken a very extreme approach in the matter of answering and transferring questions from his office and such replies are central to the accountability of the Taoiseach's office. Last week, he refused to answer a question about his own personal approach to the European Commission, for example, and this question was transferred to the Tánaiste's office.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Please explain your question, Deputy.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The issue is that the number of questions transferred from the Department of the Taoiseach is growing in volume. It is an extraordinary number covering all sorts of areas-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is straying a little bit now.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----which would lead one to the view-----

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Minister, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources; Dublin South West, Labour)
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Deputy Martin should have been over there for the past 14 years.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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-----that there a very few subjects left which one can ask about to the Department of the Taoiseach, given the reduced accountability and the transfer and displacement of a whole range of functions from the Department to elsewhere. What will be the final configuration of the Department?

3:00 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy will recall that at the first Question Time in this Dáil I suggested that we might do away with one of the ordinary questions to the Taoiseach because such questions come up very often on a rota basis, as the Deputy is well aware. I was asking the same questions repeatedly for nine years when I was in opposition. Following this restructuring, the Department of the Taoiseach will oversee the implementation of the programme for Government. I chair the seven Cabinet committees which are intrinsically involved in all the important issues of Departments and which the Ministers attend and these are in addition to Cabinet meetings.

The Deputy's question concerned the provision of a progress report on the halving of the size of the Department, as committed to in the programme for Government. That referred to the Fine Gael document published before the election. Maybe whoever drafted the question for the Deputy got a bit excited. It is in the programme for Government.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Maybe we were giving your influence a bit too much weight.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The programme for Government is an agreement between Fine Gael and the Labour Party to bring about a situation whereby we rectify our public finances, sort out our banks and provide opportunities for people for the future in a country of which we can all be proud. It is a document, as Deputy McDonald is aware, of both parties and not one which belongs to a single party, something to which her question referred.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach may not have made the commitment to halving his Department. I accept it is not in the programme for Government. However, he said he sees the Department as becoming the strategic centre of Government, overseeing the delivery of the programme for Government. It is for the Office of the Taoiseach to bring coherence, clear communication, commonality of purpose and a oneness of will and action to matters. How does the Taoiseach think that is going, given that the events of recent weeks demonstrate that the left hand does not seem to know what the right hand is doing? Ministers openly contradict each other.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Ceann Comhairle; Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I thought we had a supplementary question.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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I am curious to know how the Taoiseach intends to anchor this strategic centre. It seems to be far from centred, it seems to be all over the place. What does the Taoiseach propose to do to bring a sense of discipline, action and good communication to his team?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Minister, Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources; Dublin South West, Labour)
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Take a leaf out of your own book.

Deputies:

You mind your team and we will mind ours.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I cannot comment on what commentators may say or whatever interpretation they put on words. We are not mixed up between personalities and shoes here, like the Deputy was in a recent comment she made in the House.

Photo of Mary Lou McDonaldMary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)
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The Labour Party benches knew all about shoes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Taoiseach, Department of An Taoiseach; Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In any event, as far as I am concerned the essential job of the Taoiseach in this context is to see that the programme for Government is implemented as rationally, logically and smoothly as possible. Some Departments are very big and have enormous responsibilities. Ministers are finding evidence on a daily basis of decisions which were announced with nothing to back them up, which sometimes does not make for pleasant reading. From that point of view, my job as the person who chairs Cabinet committees dealing with a range of issues from all Departments is to ensure that we implement the programme for Government.

There is no confusion about the target and objective in mind. Even within the Deputy's party there can be little see-saw activities in respect of words and their meaning. As far as the Government is concerned, we are very focused on the target and objective. We are not yet in Government for 100 days and a great deal has been achieved. There is a full programme lying ahead of us. The people concerned are now all at their desks making decisions and preparing memos for Government to decide on.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Leader of the Opposition; Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Which people?