Dáil debates

Wednesday, 18 May 2011

2:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if, following the transfer of staff and the establishment of a new economic secretariat in his Department, his Department will play any substantive or distinct role in the process of evaluating which State assets should be sold. [9865/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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As the Deputy is aware, the report of the review group on State assets and liabilities was recently presented to the Government. The Government is considering the findings of the report and its extensive recommendations in detail. As stated in the programme for Government, assets will only be sold when market conditions are right and adequate regulatory structures have been established to protect consumer interests. As the Head of Government, I will contribute to the decision-making process on the sale of State assets, as appropriate. However, the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform has lead responsibility for policy in this area. As such, any questions on these issues, including future parliamentary questions, might be addressed to him.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I have asked the question on the basis that the small economic unit has been transferred from the Department of the Taoiseach to the emerging Department under Deputy Brendan Howlin. The sale of State assets is a fundamental issue that the Government has indicated it will address. Will the Taoiseach have available to him within his Department independent advice to enable him to take a broader perspective than a line Minister on a specific issue such as the sale of a specific State company? Will the Minister concerned have independent advice within his or her office to make an assessment of the merits or demerits of any decision that may come before him or her?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I attend the economic management council with the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, the Minister for Finance and the Minister with responsibility for public expenditure and reform. Any question of that nature will come before the council which is a Cabinet sub-committee. The Cabinet must also give its approval to any proposals coming from any Minister on the potential sale of State assets. The Government has set out the sale of non-strategic State assets, as may be appropriate in market conditions, up to a value of €2 billion in the period of office of the Government. While Mr. McCarthy published an extensive list of potentially saleable non-strategic assets, amounting to €5 billion, the Government will consider the report and under the conditions I mentioned, the Cabinet will make its decision. As head of the Cabinet and the person who chairs meetings of the economic management council, with my staff I have plenty of independence advice to make a contribution and a judgment on anything that comes before us.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Will the Taoiseach articulate to the House what he considers to be a strategic and a non-strategic asset?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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A strategic asset would be the transmission system for the ESB or the gas lines. These are strategic assets that are of importance to the State. Non-strategic assets are not absolutely essential to the economic well-being and continuation of the State. A number are listed by Mr. Colm McCarthy in his report. Under appropriate market conditions and having made a decision on what is a non-strategic asset, the Government may make a decision in that respect.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Can I have the Taoiseach's opinion?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will send the Deputy a list of what I consider to be non-strategic assets.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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On a related matter, the Taoiseach has twice mentioned my non-attendance at events involving the Queen of England. While I respect his right to attend and that of the President to invite the Queen of England, I also have the right not to attend. While I represent a constituency in the State, I am from the North. County Mayo is no longer under the control of the English Crown. Where I come from is, even in a conditional way, covered by the new dispensation we have carved out. Rather than making snide remarks back and forth, the Taoiseach needs to remember that there are people in the North, sometimes referred to as Northern Nationalists, who are watching every single comma and dot. I hope there will be good will as a result of this visit, but while the country is partitioned, as it is-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are on a different question.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I understand that, but the Taoiseach has raised this issue on a number of occasions. I ask him to respect my right as a democrat and an Irish republican-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Not on this question.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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-----and someoneone who has contributed and will continue to contribute to bringing about the unity of our people. I ask that my view be respected also.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Will the Taoiseach clarify his response to Deputy Micheál Martin? It is still not clear to me where the buck stops on the State assets we will have to sell at the behest of the European Union and the IMF as part of their package. Who will make the final decision? Deputy Brendan Howlin and other Ministers may have an input, make recommendations and examine the McCarthy report. Surely, given something as serious and disastrous as a demand to sell State assets to pay off banker debts, the bottom line should be with the Taoiseach. Is it not also necessary for the Taoiseach to define somewhat more clearly than he has in his response, strategic as opposed to non-strategic assets? A couple of "strategic" examples are given but the Taoiseach referred to the McCarthy report, and the definition of "non-strategic" in it is preposterous.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is there a question?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I will be brief.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should be brief. Other Deputies are indicating.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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For example, the report suggests that harbours and ports are not strategic assets in an island nation.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot do this on Question Time. We are not here to debate that issue.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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It is crazy.

Photo of Paudie CoffeyPaudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach confirm if part of the EU and IMF bailout deal agreed by the last Government was that State assets be sold? Is it clearly defined in the agreement? Was it made clear at the time of the deal what was non-essential and, conversely, essential? Is it being left to the Government to establish the criteria to define the issue. It seems obvious that the deal was already done by the previous Government.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There has been change.

Photo of Paudie CoffeyPaudie Coffey (Waterford, Fine Gael)
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This Government has been left to deal with the matter. The establishment of criteria should be clarified.

Photo of Clare DalyClare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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That is the excuse anyway.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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I also have a question.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We will come back to the Deputy. The Taoiseach will reply to the two supplementary questions.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will be crystal clear for Deputy Boyd Barrett. The decision rests with the Cabinet and the Dáil. The programme for Government is what we have set out to implement during this Government's term of office and it is very clear. It states that the Government will give effect to the sale of non-strategic State assets to the tune of €2 billion over this Government's lifetime. The Government will consider how that can best be achieved on the basis of appropriate market conditions and in consideration of what is not a strategic asset. The Dáil will be fully appraised and allowed to discuss the matter. I hope that is clear.

In respect of Deputy Coffey's contribution, the previous EU and IMF deal recommended that a sale of State assets should be used for debt forgiveness only. The Minister responsible for public expenditure dealing with the matter was party to the negotiations which changed the deal with the troika in a number of areas, one of which is in respect of any sale of a non-strategic State asset. On a case by case basis that would be examined in the context of investing that money in job creation and job initiatives.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On a point of order, the Taoiseach is misleading the House. I quoted verbatim from the EU and IMF deal negotiated by the Government and it does not state anything of the sort. It actually states the opposite.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is dealing with this.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach should check the record.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I am aware of the-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is important that the record be corrected. I am alerting the House to a serious error.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is not to mislead the House at all.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is there in black and white.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of the wording in the document. I am also aware that the Minister with responsibility was a party to the negotiations. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for public expenditure have an agreement with the troika that in respect of any individual sale of a non-strategic State asset, on a case by case basis that can be considered for investment in job creation. That is the negotiated position between the Ministers and the troika despite the wording in the document.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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That makes absolutely no sense.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I did not call the Deputy. He cannot jump up and down without going through the Chair.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I do not want to do so.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will not allow the Deputy to do it.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The agreement produced by the Ministers is different to that which was put before the House and debated. That is the complete opposite of what the Taoiseach has just said. That is treating the House with disrespect.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is also treating the House with disrespect.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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This is absolutely unbelievable. There should be some respect.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have now run out of time for questions.

Photo of Pádraig Mac LochlainnPádraig Mac Lochlainn (Donegal North East, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The time is up. I ask Deputies to read the Standing Order relating to parliamentary questions and the right of Deputies - which does not automatically exist - to put supplementary questions. I have been here almost 30 years and Question Time is becoming a total joke. People are tabling parliamentary questions but five or six questions are being answered during the session. The goal of parliamentary questions is to seek an answer; if Deputies are not happy with an initial answer they are entitled to elucidate. Not every Member is entitled to jump up and ask a supplementary question, and the Deputy asking the question is entitled to an answer. I will be fairly strict from now on unless Standing Orders are changed. As I have stated before, the current process can be very unfair to other Deputies who table questions that we do not reach.

I do not want to get into any arguments or rows with Deputies. When Deputies ask a supplementary question, there is no permission to start making statements. A question is just that. I will be fairly strict from now on because the current system can be grossly unfair to Deputies.