Dáil debates

Wednesday, 18 May 2011

Ceisteanna - Questions

Office of the Attorney General

2:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the administrative changes which have been made in relation to the drafting of legislation by or under the supervision of the Attorney General's Office. [9564/11]

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the form of reorganisation, if any, that has been undertaken in the office of the Attorney General; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11451/11]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.

The Office of the Attorney General is organised into two legal areas, one to provide legal advice and the other to produce legislative drafting. These two functions are supported by a shared administration service.

The office constantly reviews its staffing resources, their organisation and workload and, as necessary, adapts to meet the demands of its clients.

The changes can be relatively modest, for example, with a staff member transferring between specialist groups within the office or going on secondment to a Department. On other occasions there can be a more fundamental redistribution of staff and legal topics, both to develop staff expertise and to take into account rising or decreasing workloads in any particular area of law.

At the start of this year such a reorganisation took place in the advisory area of the office following staff changes and a review of the volume and type of work routinely being received. There are five legal groups in the office and the reorganisation involved a redistribution of the specialist topics dealt with by each group as well as the movement of staff members to ensure that the composition of each group is sufficient to carry out their work.

The office has also reduced its staffing numbers by 14 over the past two years. In order to maintain core services, that is, legal advice and legislative drafting, the office reorganised its administration areas to absorb the reductions.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the programme for Government, and, indeed, in the Government's legislative programme, the Taoiseach made a series of specific commitments on the legislative process. In particular, he promised that the early drafts of legislation would be brought before the House for debate before Bills are formally published. This has not happened on any occasion in the case of any legislation so far this term. Is this because of delays in or capacity issues within the Office of the Attorney General, or is there some other reason we are not getting the earlier drafts of Bills? For example, there was no reason the most recent Bill, the Criminal Justice Bill 2011 from the Minister for Justice and Equality, Deputy Shatter, could not have been published in draft form because it was already prepared by the outgoing Government. What is the reason we have not had these drafts?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The reason is that we have not yet agreed the changes in terms of Dáil reform. I want to see that happen and I will make it happen, but I want to discuss that with Deputy Martin's party, other parties and Members so that we can get agreement on how best to achieve that.

It would be valuable that when heads of Bills are being produced by Ministers and presented to Cabinet, and being approved by Cabinet, they would be referred to the relevant committee to get a political response. It would be in the interests of everybody as that Bill would proceed to Committee Stage and one would get a reflection from practical politicians as to whether it is relevant or irrelevant, or should be changed, amended or whatever.

The reason one has not had it heretofore is because we have not agreed the range of Dáil reforms. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, is working on that. In conjunction, through the Whips and the different parties, I hope that we can get agreement on a comprehensive range of changes, one of which will be that very fact.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Caithfidh mé a rá go bhfuil freagra an Taoisigh ar an gceist seo an-soiléir. Tá mé fíor-buíoch as.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Go raibh maith agat.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Bheadh mé níos sásta dá mbeadh sé an-soiléir ar a lán ábhair agus ceisteanna eile a chuirim air. Anyway, go raibh míle maith agat.

The Taoiseach stated, as I understand it anyway, that the Government acts on the legal advice of the Attorney General. I know of no case where previous Governments, even where confidentiality is not required, has published that advice. Would the Taoiseach as a matter of policy, where it is appropriate, make public the advice of the Attorney General on matters of public interest?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Neither do I know of occasions where the Attorney General's advice has been published. The Attorney General has a constitutional responsibility to be the legal adviser to the Government. The Government takes that advice into consideration before it makes its decisions. I do not see any change in current practice that might require publication of the legal advice of the Attorney General to the Cabinet of the day. The important thing is that Cabinet decisions are clear, transparent, accountable and debated.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the Taoiseach's reply, he outlined that over the past two years there has been a staff reduction of 14 in the Attorney General's office. Looking at the scale of legislation promised for the remainder of the year, there is a case to be made that perhaps the capacity does not exist to process all of this legislation in this timeframe unless significant changes are made either in the Attorney General's office or in the way Bills are drafted such as the use of outsourcing, which, to be blunt about it, has always been frowned upon by the system, in terms of giving this capacity to others. I had experience of this with regard to one famous Bill. Given all that has happened on the economic side as well as the significant workload pressures on the office, what are the Taoiseach's observations on whether the legislative programme that has been published and promised is deliverable from the existing capacity in the Attorney General's office?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will have to report further to the Deputy on this matter. I took the opportunity to attend the legislation committee last week. I think it was the first occasion that any Taoiseach attended a legislation committee dealing with the Whips, the Attorney General and the Parliamentary Counsel. The "A" list of legislation which is published is a list of Bills that can be delivered in this session by the various Ministers in Cabinet. However, I must tell the Deputy that I have asked the legislation committee, including the Attorney General and the Parliamentary Counsel, to bring forward the absolute requirements on which the Oireachtas must deliver with regard to Bills that must be delivered within a certain time arising from the IMF-EU deal. I will report to the House as soon as I have clarification on this.

It is not a case of the Attorney General's office and the Parliamentary Counsel not being able to produce legislation. I want to commend them on the fact they have worked weekend after weekend on Saturdays and Sundays dealing with elements of legislation, and Deputy Martin is well aware of this. Often, to be honest, it is that Ministers have not had the practice of being sufficiently clear in the policy requirements which need to be drafted. It is not just a case of stating one wants to introduce a Bill about concept "X". Unless clarity is given by the Minister or Department on what is being sought in legislation, it is difficult for the Parliamentary Counsel and the Attorney General's office to enshrine it in the appropriate legislation. This is an issue about which people must become aware.

Outsourcing has proved to be very costly in the past. I am not sure of the number of Bills that were outsourced during Deputy Martin's party's time in government. A number of specialist shorter-term contracts have been issued to people of exceptional competence who have expertise in a particular area of law. This has proved to be useful as an additional source of potential for the Attorney General's office.