Dáil debates

Tuesday, 17 May 2011

4:00 pm

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Mar uachtarán Fhianna Fáil, ba mhaith liom fáilte Uí Cheallaigh a chur roimh chuairt Bhanríon na Breataine go dtí an tír seo. Gan amhras, lá stairiúil agus tábhachtach atá ann. I am pleased as uachtarán of Fianna Fáil to welcome today's historic and important visit of Queen Elizabeth II to this country. It is a truly historic day which reflects the transformation of relations between our two countries. In that context also, we should agree that it represents a fitting tribute to the nationalist and republican vision of the men and women who sacrificed their lives more than 100 years ago for the independence of this nation. What they clearly wanted to achieve was a state that was independent of Great Britain but one that would develop and cultivate a relationship of friendship and warmth with it, our nearest neighbour. Their fundamental objective was that the people alone would have the right to decide the constitutional future of this island, something which has now been recognised in national and international law, in a number of referendums decided by the people in the aftermath of the Good Friday Agreement. It is fitting and generous that the British monarch was in a position to pay her respects at the Garden of Remembrance earlier today. Does the Taoiseach agree that today is also a fitting occasion for us to acknowledge and pay tribute to the tireless work of so many people during the years, often unnoticed, who through the long years of the peace process worked extremely hard to achieve the broad national constitutional consensus that has enabled this historic visit to take place?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I agree. The Deputy is correct. I pay tribute to all of those mentioned, irrespective of the parties they represented, on the efforts they made - often unrecognised - in playing their part in putting together the jigsaw of peace eventually agreed North and South by both communities in overwhelming numbers. Evidence of this was epitomised today by the visit of the Queen of England, at the invitation of the President. One can never know in advance the power of the symbolism of these events. However, for me, representing the Government with many others, the symbolism of Captain Tom Holmes walking across in front of Áras an Uachtaráin to the Queen of England, flanked by two officers of Óglaigh na hÉireann, and indicating that the guard of honour, the members of which were drawn from the Army, the Air Corps and the Navy, was ready for her inspection was powerful beyond words. That symbolism, as the Deputy reflected, shows the maturity of two countries able to do their business in a modern sense and get on with life in a spirit of co-operation, respect and friendship.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In the context of this visit and the Taoiseach's meeting with the British Prime Minister this week, it is appropriate also that we raise points at issue between our two countries. In this context, the Taoiseach must understand governments are held to a higher standard of accountability for their past actions than illegal groups, the records of which in killing innocent people are plain to see. The impact of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings has been deep and long-lasting. The relatives of those who died and were injured have received significant help from the Government in the past decade, but they continue to face a large obstacle in getting to the truth, the refusal of the British Government to open up its files on the case. I have written to the British ambassador to reiterate my view and that of Fianna Fáil on the issue. Will the Taoiseach take the opportunity today to give the House a clear and definite commitment that his policy is to resolutely seek the publication of these files? Will he tell the Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, that the continued delay is no longer good enough and that the visit of Queen Elizabeth represents an opportunity to mark a significant change of heart? Will he try to bring closure for the relatives of those who were killed and injured in what was the largest and most horrible atrocity in the difficult conflict of which we are all well aware?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I recall the atrocity of the Dublin-Monaghan bombings very well and knew one person who was killed and that person's family. This issue has been a source of debate and questions in the House for many years. When I had the opportunity to visit Downing Street some weeks ago, I indicated to the British Minister this was an issue that would, obviously, be raised on the occasion of the Queen's visit. As a Deputy on the Opposition side of the House, I also raised with different Taoisigh the publication of files that might be available. This issue was investigated in some detail prior to publication of the Barron report. I also raised the issue with the Prime Minister when I met him and indicated I would raise the issue on every occasion I had an appropriate opportunity. I will speak with him tomorrow and raise the matter again.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Tá mé an-sásta é sin a chloisint. Does the Taoiseach agree that the complete normalisation of relationships between Ireland and Britain and the independence of this nation, as opposed to the State, can only be fully achieved by bringing to an end partition and reuniting the people and the country? Does he accept that the Good Friday Agreement provides a democratic and peaceful path to achieve this aim? Will he commit the Government to achieving this objective?

Ar barr an árais seo, tá brat ina bhfuil an dath oráiste go breá láidir agus tá sé soiléir go mba chóir go mbeadh muintir an oileáin seo le chéile, oráiste agus glas agus achan duine inár measc. Tá gá le comhrá náisiúnta ar an ábhar seo. An bhfuil an Taoiseach chun tús a chur leis an gcomhrá seo?

Will the Taoiseach accept that legacy issues are part of this process? Funding for the Justice for the Forgotten campaign was cut on Fianna Fáil's watch and has not yet been restored on the Taoiseach's watch, although I raised the issue some time ago. Dealing with issues of the past is necessary in order for us to build a future based on equality and justice. Files are being withheld. They were withheld from Judge Barron's inquiries into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings and the bomb attack on Crowe Street, Dundalk, outside Kay's Tavern, as well as other attacks. These files should be released and I am pleased the Taoiseach will raise the issue, on which he was not so clear when I raised the question after his visit to Downing Street. I urge him to give a cast-iron guarantee that he will seek a commitment from Mr. Cameron to make the files available.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Aontaím leis an Teachta go bhfuil sé intuigthe i gComhaontú Aoine an Chéasta go bhfuil cead ag muintir na hÉireann, ó Thuaidh agus ó Dheas, vótáil lá amháin faoi chúrsaí na hÉireann as seo amach. Go dtí go dtiocfaidh an lá sin, tá cead ag polaiteoirí, sa Tuaisceart agus sa Deisceart, obair a dhéanamh in éineacht lena chéile maidir le forbairt eacnamaíochta an oileáin ar fad. Tá súil agam go mbeidh an Teachta páirteach sna díospóireachtaí sin amach anseo nuair a bheidh na comhairlí éagsúla curtha ar bun do na díospóireachtaí sin.

There are many files and many aspects to files, issues and atrocities about which we do not have the full facts. They relate to trials regarding over 3,000 people who lost their lives. As the Deputy is well aware, many pieces of information relevant will never be produced. I indicated in response to a question from Deputy Micheál Martin that the issue was signalled by me when I spoke to the Prime Minister, Mr. Cameron, in London a few weeks ago. I indicated it would be an issue here, in keeping with my record when in opposition of asking Taoisigh about this matter. I do not have control over it, but I will raise the issue.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with the Taoiseach that there are many difficult legacy issues arising from the conflict and that the light must be shone on all of them, including the actions of and killings by republicans. I seek the same clarity from the Government on all of these incidents and ask that they be dealt with in an equal and inclusive way. Rather than us playing politics on the issue, does the Taoiseach accept the two Governments should invite a reputable international body to establish an independent international truth commission? Will the Taoiseach accept that genuine national reconciliation and closure for victims and the type of healing process we require, and which all victims and survivors deserve, demands that everyone - I do this on my own behalf - pledges himself or herself to come forward to such a process, to encourage such a process and to encourage others to be part of such a process? Nuair a bhí mé ag éisteacht le daoine a d'fhulaing, bhí siad ag caint mar gheall ar dínit agus an gá atá acu le clabhsúr. Is rud an-tábhachtach é seo.

Does the Taoiseach agree that such an independent international truth commission is needed and will he make a statement on the matter? Similar to my question about the need to end partition and to bring the people of the island together, we need a strategy for that, we need the Government to lead that strategy and we need a programmatic timetabled approached to both. An gcuirfidh an Taoiseach an choimisiún seo chun cinn? An féidir leis ráiteas a chur amach ar an ábhar seo?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Ba mhaith liom go mbeadh an fhírinne faoi gach rud atá imithe le blianta anuas ar fáil. I will not commit myself here to having a series of public inquiries. The Deputy mentioned that there should be an equal and inclusive way of finding this out. He knows more about this than I do in terms of republican atrocities, so I am glad to hear him say that he is prepared to come forward with whatever information is known to him, on which I commend him. It might be appropriate for us to consider the range of incidents where lives were lost, where some analysis should be put into determining the truth by a method to be agreed. There are people here and in Britain who lost loved ones because of these incidents and who have no closure. I am glad to hear the Deputy say, as president of his party, that he is prepared to come forward with information about republican atrocities, which is a good start. I will reflect on what he has said here.

As I said in response to Deputy Martin, I have undertaken to raise the issue of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings with the British Prime Minister. I do not have access to those files, but I will make the case in the best way I can, continuing on the work done by previous taoisigh, who raised it with the British Prime Minister's predecessors. I listened to Margaret Irwin of Justice for the Forgotten. She was very clear that she did not want any flags, banners or statements at the simple wreath-laying ceremony which has been their usual practice on this date, the anniversary of the Dublin and Monaghan bombings. As somebody remarked to me just passing the wall of Trinity College a short while ago, the mark is still on the wall where one of those cars was placed which resulted in the loss of life of a woman across the street. The Deputy can take it that the Government will regard it as a priority in respect of the continuation of the peace process, the Good Friday Agreement and the St. Andrews Agreement to work with the British Government, the Northern Ireland Assembly, which the people have elected in the interest of the communities on this island, on the development of the economy of the island and in pursuit of fulfilling in full the terms and agreements signed off by the people, North and South, in respect of the Good Friday Agreement. It would be remiss of me not to commit the Government to that and to lead by example.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Higgins.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Could I speak again briefly as it is such an important issue?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I know it is a very important issue, but we can come back to it.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Just one sentence, please.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry. We are way over the time as it is. I appreciate that it is an important issue that deserves fuller consideration and I will facilitate it any time.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Last night's RTE special "Prime Time" programme on the taxi industry highlighted a number of shocking incidents of dangerous practices that would put the public at serious risk by a minority involved on the supply side of the taxi industry. It also highlighted shocking examples of outright corruption, involving, we presume and hope, a small minority of national car test individuals. Those issues must be addressed urgently and I am sure that is already happening in respect of the more blatant issues exposed last night.

I commend Mr. Paul Maguire and RTE's public service broadcast on the matter. However, I express regret that an extremely serious pressing human problem in the industry was not considered at all and I draw the Taoiseach's attention to it. The extreme liberalisation of the taxi industry imposed by the Fianna Fáil and Progressive Democrats Government has resulted in thousands of taxi drivers being under desperate economic pressure. Simply put, they cannot make a decent living. As a regular taxi user I know this for a fact. This is not a usual complaint and should not be treated as such. On average many drivers earn close to the national minimum wage, which means they need to work inexorably long hours to make a living for their families and to pay their mortgages and soon. The Goodbody report proved that but then more or less stated that nothing could be done.

Is the Taoiseach aware of the level of distress among the decent majority within the taxi driving workforce? Unfortunately and tragically within the past two years a number of taxi drivers have taken their own lives as a result of this economic pressure and the inability to make a living for their families. The previous Minister for Transport arrogantly dismissed the taxi drivers and fobbed the issue off to the regulator. In some incidents the taxi drivers felt it would be easier to get to the queen of England. Will the Taoiseach ask the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and his Minister of State as a matter of urgency to deal with the issues of all the abuses by a minority highlighted last night and particularly the wellbeing of the vast majority of those who provide a very important public service?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I did not see the programme but heard reports about it. No more than anybody else, I would be shocked by the findings of the report and I commend those who carried out this investigation. The Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport and his Minister of State met taxi personnel today at 11 o'clock. The Minister of State, Deputy Kelly, today announced a review arising from yesterday's investigative report.

Before I changed jobs here, I was a frequent user of taxis and I spoke to taxi drivers at length about the matter. On many occasions they pointed out to me that after doing 14 or 15 hours, they might have €50 for the day - others might be a little luckier. I met taxi drivers in Cabra, Phibsborough and throughout the city who had complaints ranging from lack of parking places for their taxis to the element of rogue taxis that have operated and are operating illegally in this city and other places, and the difficulties that, as the Deputy rightly points out, many of them face. Unfortunately they are not alone in facing those economic difficulties in their sector. If the taxi industry today were the same as it was up to the time that the then Minister of State, Mr. Bobby Molloy, deregulated the entire industry because he was not able to get any agreement on a structure at the time, things might be very different. However, we need to deal with the situation now.

The issue the Deputy raises is one that the Minister, Deputy Varadkar, and in particular the Minister of State, Deputy Kelly, who has responsibility for it, will consider.

I have a particular interest not only in vehicles used but also in the personal safety of those who travel, particularly those who are vulnerable at night. I want to see an end in this city and others to the operation of illegal taxis by those who purport to be legitimate, caring taxi drivers. The vast majority fall into the latter category but, unfortunately, there are a number who do not meet the criteria and they must be prevented from pretending to be legitimate taxi drivers providing a legitimate taxi service.

Photo of Joe HigginsJoe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Everybody should agree that taxi drivers provide an essential public transport service and, therefore, deserve support and respect. That there are approximately 500 parking spaces in Dublin for up to 15,000 taxis is a disgrace. Many taxi drivers are treated like fugitives and pushed around by An Garda Síochána when looking for a place to wait to pick up passengers. While nobody is advocating a return to the other extreme when there were massive queues of young people waiting at night in cities and towns for non-existent taxis, there is a just solution for the public using taxis and those providing the service. While I am glad the Ministers are meeting the representatives of the taxi drivers, we seek quick action on these issues because real human problems and the well-being of the public are at stake. We want the Government to return with real solutions that bear in mind the justice being called for. A good taxi transport system is called for, as are decent living standards and safety for taxi drivers.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There can be a bit of give on both sides in this case. The range and condition of taxis vary considerably. From experience, I know the vast majority of those who supply a taxi service fulfil a public need and do so in an exemplary manner. Many of them work exceptionally hard for very little return in many cases.

The Deputy will agree that the Minister for Transport, together with his Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly, have acted swiftly. I expect the terms of reference of the commission investigating the matter to be fixed within the next three weeks. It will possibly be given a period of two or three months in which to report.

Having arrived in this city from the west late at night on umpteen occasions, I have noticed lines of taxis in particular areas. If a regulatory official or garda starts to check the taxis in these lines, he or she notices that 15, 20 or 30 pull out from the line because they know they are not in compliance with the law. We must change this and make it easier for those who are perfectly legitimate to earn a living from the work they do in an exemplary fashion.

The Deputy's suggestions for the commission to be overseen by the Minister of State will be more than welcome when it is established. I assume that in due course we can debate the matter properly through the committee system or in the House when appropriate.