Dáil debates

Tuesday, 17 May 2011

Other Questions

Social and Affordable Housing

3:00 pm

Photo of Martin FerrisMartin Ferris (Kerry North-West Limerick, Sinn Fein)
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Question 43: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government if his attention has been drawn to a procedural problem with social housing applications whereby if a person needs to amend some part of the information on their form that they must resubmit their application in full and begin the process again; and his plans to rectify same. [11507/11]

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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The Social Housing Assessment Regulations 2011, which came into force on 1 April 2011, include a standard application form to be completed by all households seeking social housing support. To ensure that a housing authority is in a position to consider a household's application properly and fairly, this form must be completed fully and all relevant supporting documentation supplied. Failure to provide full information could result in an inaccurate assessment of the household's application, including an unwarranted negative decision regarding qualification.

For this reason, guidance from my Department advises housing authorities to return any incomplete applications as soon as possible and to request a complete application to enable an assessment to be conducted. A checklist for applicants is included and applicants are strongly advised to submit applications in person to verify the form's completeness straight away, so as to avoid unnecessary delays.

Once a household has been deemed qualified for social housing support, and put on the waiting list, it is the responsibility of the household to keep the housing authority updated of any change in details or circumstances which may affect the household's eligibility or priority. This process does not require resubmission of an application form.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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There have been numerous cases where people who have lost their homes have experienced difficulties in applying for social housing. We must have new criteria to deal with people in that position. The current application form does not cater for certain people who were previously home owners but whose properties have been taken by the banks or otherwise. This issue must be taken into account in order to cater for such people.

4:00 pm

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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The Deputy makes a fair point. I have indicated my intention to look at the assessment regulations by the end of the year and I will take on board submissions from Deputies in this regard. There is nobody better than Oireachtas Members and local authority representatives in this regard because they are at the coalface and can identify the shortcomings and failures of any system. The new application process has brought some degree of consistency and uniformity. It is important, for example, that what is applied in Westmeath can also be applied in Dublin. However, if there is a lacuna, particularly where people have been subject to a repossession order or something of that nature, it is important that they be accommodated. I refer to situations where home owners are no longer in a position to pay their mortgage and the legal system has moved beyond the threat of proceedings to them having to vacate their home.

I am eager that this situation be accommodated within the overall assessment procedure. It is a comprehensive procedure. I have a view, informed by being a local authority representative where the best education is obtained, that there should be, as far as possible, a one-stop shop in respect of social housing policy. I intend to bring forward a social housing policy review in the coming months. A priority in this regard is the provision of a one-stop model where a person is assessed only once as opposed to the situation in the past where there were multiple assessments. I understand there are always concerns about anything new. The form has to be comprehensive in order to ensure that it is right for Athlone Town Council as well as for Westmeath County Council. That is more efficient than having people traipsing into two different offices.

Another issue I have considered in depth in the past ten weeks relates to supplementary welfare provision and the rent allowance scheme. Persons undergo a rigorous assessment by the local authority after which they receive an assessment letter and must then go off to a community welfare officer somewhere else, perhaps a considerable distance away. It may be time to bite the bullet and to incorporate all of this within a social housing context. Whereas rental income support was originally intended as a temporary income support measure it has now become an integral part of overall social housing policy.

That is what I am thinking about.

Photo of Catherine MurphyCatherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)
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A standard form is available but not everybody has access to a computer or is computer literate. Has the Minister of State discussed an online version of the application form with the Local Government Computer Services Board or the County and City Managers' Association? Significant administrative time could be saved if such access was provided. As public representatives, we often help applicants to fill out the form and we could, therefore, do it online for them. It would be a useful way to save staff time.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the Minister of State's approach to this issue. It is a positive day and we are hearing many positive comments. I must pinch myself.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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Deputy Boyd Barrett is selling out.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Luke 'Ming' Flanagan was well looked after by Fine Gael in Roscommon in the past when it suited him.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I welcome the Minister of State's suggestion to bring both functions together in a one-stop-shop but the discretion community welfare officers have in sanctioning rent allowance is worrying. The vast majority of CWOs are good, decent people but problem cases arise because they have discretion rather than being subject to clear guidelines about people's eligibility. This matter needs to be examined.

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I always argued for discretion. I recall that my first day as a council member when we discussed the county development plan, an old councillor, who has long since passed away, said the one thing we must not do is allow the county manager to streamline everything because he will never exercise an ounce of discretion. Perhaps there is an argument in that regard. However, standardisation of interpretation is important. The Minister supports that and I am grateful to him for his support. My intention is to bring everything together so that there would be a unitary interpretation while, at the same time, allowing flexibility, where needed. CWOs served us well in the past because they knew individual and family circumstances best through their work.

Deputy Murphy has again demonstrated her knowledge of the local authority system. Her idea is excellent and I will see whether it can be implemented. I will suggest that my officials raise this at their next meeting with representatives of the County and City Managers' Association. If the Deputy has further ideas in this regard, I would appreciate it if she would furnish me with the details. Her proposal would simplify everything for the applicant whom we are trying to work with and whose needs we are trying to satisfy. Such applicants can become confused but many young applicants are computer literate and if the forms were available online, it would be efficient for the applicants and the local authorities. I hope turnaround times would also improve. It would be administratively efficient and effective and it would be worthwhile pursuing.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 44: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government his plans to improve or accelerate social housing provision in the current economic climate; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [11589/11]

Photo of Jonathan O'BrienJonathan O'Brien (Cork North Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 62: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Community and Local Government his plans to increase funding for the development of publicly provided social housing for older persons. [11521/11]

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 44 and 62 together.

Notwithstanding the significant easing of affordability experienced in recent years, the current adverse economic circumstances have impacted on the demand for social housing and the capacity to meet this demand. The straitened resource environment has accelerated the shift away from reliance purely on programmes of construction and acquisition.

The main focus in terms of supports provided by Government will be on meeting the most acute needs, the housing support needs of those unable to provide for their accommodation from own resources. We are committed to responding more quickly and on a larger scale to these needs, including those of older people, through a variety of mechanisms, including through increased provision of social housing, continued strong support for special needs provision through the capital assistance scheme and the suite of adaptation grants for older people and people with disabilities.

This will necessitate a continuing restructuring of the social housing investment programme to allow for delivery of new social housing through more flexible funding models, in order to enable us to meet our social housing delivery commitments in the period ahead while, to the greatest extent possible, protecting programmes targeting special needs. The social housing leasing initiative and, in particular, the rental accommodation scheme will each play their part as long-term mainstream social housing supports.

The Government is also committed to developing other funding mechanisms that will increase the supply of permanent new social housing. Such mechanisms will include options to purchase, build to lease, and the sourcing of loan finance by approved housing bodies, including from the Housing Finance Agency, for construction and acquisition.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am sure the Minister of State will agree it was a scandal that the previous Government oversaw an unprecedented property boom during which up to 90,000 houses were built annually but left a legacy of 50,000 people on local authority housing lists, which is an astonishing indictment of its performance. Can he assure the House that the Government will not oversee an equally great scandal with up to 300,000 empty houses in the State while 50,000 people are on the housing list and that he will aggressively move to resolve this terrible anomaly, which could result in people being on the list for nine or ten years?

Must we not aggressively attack this issue not only because of the obscenity of houses lying empty while people are on the housing list but also for sound financial reasons? If the 50,000 people on the housing list were housed, it would save the State approximately €500 million in rent allowance payments annually and it would probably generate €360 million for the Exchequer in rent. This would not even be fiscally neutral. We would benefit if we housed the 50,000 people on the list. While acknowledging the Minister of State's earlier comments, is there not a case for allocating suitable NAMA properties to social housing applicants and, where such properties are not suitable, to engage workers to construct social housing because that would create employment, provide housing and save the State money by generating a new revenue stream? It is a "no brainer" to do this. Does the Minister of State intend to move in that direction?

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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I would love to do that because local authorities should be the prime drivers of social housing policy and I come from that background but, in the context of the straitened financial circumstances in which we find ourselves, the capital budget for social housing has reduced by 66% since 2008 down from €1.535 billion to €500 million and the bulk of that reduction has affected the local authority housing programme, the allocation for which has reduced from €1 billion to €140 million this year. The financial parameters within which we will operate over the coming years rule out a return to large capital funded construction programmes by local authorities and, therefore, we must examine alternatives such as the build to lease or rental accommodation schemes, transfers from NAMA and so on.

Delivery of social housing will be primarily facilitated through more flexible funding models. The social housing leasing initiative will be discussed with NAMA. I met NAMA officials and I informed them that I want to generate a social dividend, if possible. This could be a circular bird because the agency is operating on behalf of the State, as is the Department. If we can implement the initiative in conjunction with NAMA, rent could be charged at 80% of the market rate on long-term leases, which would generate a return for the State on a long-term basis, with applicants then having the option to purchase or the State having the option to take equity in the property at the end of the lease.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Social housing is a huge issue.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should ask a question please.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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You should give me a bit of leeway, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, as I got caught up in traffic.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I have been very fair to the Deputy.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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Getting here was a nightmare.

Photo of Phil HoganPhil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Ellis had to make way for the Queen.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I missed some of the important things I wanted to get. Approximately 44,000 people are on the social housing list. Approximately 100,000 people are on rental subsidy, which costs the State more than €500 million. That is a total of 144,000 people looking for social housing. It is an absolute scandal.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should ask a question please.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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The Minister has outlined some of the ways to deal with the issue. In the context of NAMA, existing housing stock owned by builders, in addition to properties lying idle could be purchased on a five-year basis. Some money could be paid upfront and the remainder in five years time. It would be a win-win situation if local authorities could get such housing stock as it would provide revenue to them and it would also create employment in the construction industry to clear the backlog of building work.

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to call Deputy Finian McGrath.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I am just making the point-----

Photo of Michael KittMichael Kitt (Galway East, Fianna Fail)
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This is Question Time.

Photo of Dessie EllisDessie Ellis (Dublin North West, Sinn Fein)
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I urge the Minister to consider the available properties in NAMA and to see whether they can be made available to local authorities.

Photo of Finian McGrathFinian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)
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I wish to ask the Minister of State two short questions. In his response he referred to housing for disabled people. Will he ensure that it is a priority, as people with disabilities have extra problems ?

When does the Minister of State envisage something will happen on the ground to benefit those on waiting lists?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am not clear about the Minister of State's reasons we cannot proceed in the manner I outlined. I accept what he said about economic constraints but this is a financially positive move for the State. We will save money if we invest in NAMA housing stock or build new social housing to house those on housing waiting lists. Surely that is a safe bet in terms of capital investment. We have money in the National Pensions Reserve Fund. If we house people we will save on rent allowance payments and get revenue into the State through rental income. There is no risk in doing that and it would get people back to work. I do not understand why we would not do it.

The leasing arrangements are crazy because they are throwing money away to the benefit of private developers. Could the Minister of State guarantee that in so far as leasing arrangements are entered into, they will not be with developers who are bankrupt so that we are essentially keeping them in business when they are bankrupt? It is one thing for a local authority to lease from NAMA because the money is coming back to us but it would be a crazy waste of money if we were to lease from a developer who is bankrupt and who would not still be in business were it not for the existence of a local authority lease. I seek assurances in that regard.

Photo of Brian StanleyBrian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)
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I invite the Minister of State to return to the issue in the House at a future date having examined the amount of money being spent on options such as the rental accommodation scheme, long-term leases and rental subsidies. He should add those costs together. I referred previously today to vacant houses in ghost estates. I agree that not all such properties are suitable for local authority housing nor should all local authority housing be in the one place. We support the integration of social housing. I urge the Minister of State to examine the option and to try to use existing resources to better effect as much taxpayers' money is being poured down the drain at the moment.

Photo of Willie PenroseWillie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)
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A number of questions arise in that regard. I do not object to Deputy Boyd Barrett's objective. I am somewhat constrained but I must deal with reality. In the context of NAMA, a significant number of houses do not fall within the social housing provision. This week and early next week we will engage in a process to identify suitable housing. In the case of abandoned estates or where nobody is to be found we will enact appropriate legislation in the House to ensure that the State and citizens get a social dividend or benefit. I look forward to all-party support for the legislation, which would be novel.

I assure Deputy Finian McGrath that the housing strategy for people with disabilities sets out the framework for the proposed delivery of housing for people with disabilities through mainstream housing policy. That will inform the future development of local housing action plans. I will ensure it will be central to the review of social housing policy that will take place in the coming months. Notwithstanding the constraints on financial resources I have outlined we have maintained and increased the funding for the suite of housing adaptation grants and mobility grants that are available. They have been subject to review and we are getting good value for money in that regard.

My objective as Minister of State with responsibility for this area is to ensure that people get an opportunity to live in their home environment for as long as possible. We are creating jobs in that area for people on the live register. It is a win-win situation. I take cognisance of the points made by Deputy Stanley and look forward to a productive debate in that regard.