Dáil debates

Thursday, 5 May 2011

2:00 pm

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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Question 1: To ask the Minister for Enterprise; Trade and Innovation his plans to reform employment regulation orders, registered employment agreements and the joint labour committees. [10087/11]

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Enterprise; Trade and Innovation his plans to ensure the protection of workers' rights, including premium pay for Sundays and anti-social hours, in view of the forthcoming review on Joint Labour Commissions and Registered Employment Agreements. [10156/11]

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 3 together. The programme for Government contains commitments to reverse the cut in the national minimum wage and to reform the joint labour committees and registered employment agreements. We need to ensure statutory wage fixing mechanisms work effectively and efficiently and that they do not have a negative impact on economic performance and employment levels. Any such mechanism in a modern economy must be responsive and fit for purpose in the context of the challenges being faced by employer and employee alike.

An independent review of the statutory wage setting mechanisms was initiated on 8 February last and was undertaken jointly by Kevin Duffy, chairman of the Labour Court, acting in an ad hoc capacity, and Dr. Frank Walsh of the School of Economics, UCD, under specific terms of reference. The review is a commitment under the EU-IMF programme, which provided not only for agreement with the European Commission services on the terms of reference but also for follow-up discussions on the programme of actions arising.

The report of the independent review team has been completed and was received by me last Thursday, 28 April. I am currently examining the report and it will be published and made available to Members of the Oireachtas, following consideration by the Government. It is proposed to have early discussions with the European Commission services on the main findings of the review, in line with the provisions in the EU-IMF programme. Arising from these discussions, I will present a time-bound comprehensive action plan to follow up on the report's recommendations, setting out proposals for any legislative action that may be necessary to give effect to reform measures. Consultation with, and the co-operation of, relevant stakeholders will also be sought to ensure the required reforms can be progressed as a matter of urgency.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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I congratulate Deputy Bruton on his appointment, and his sidekick Deputy John Perry. Their appointments are well deserved and I did not have the opportunity before now to congratulate them. A number of questions arise from the Minister's reply. When will the changes the Government decides to make be in place? There was a great deal of urgency expressed by both Government parties in the lead-up to the election. This was seen as central to improving competitiveness. It is unfair that 250,000 people have the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads for an indefinite period. I would like to have a timescale on this.

The programme for Government states that the examination of these agreements will include the rate of pay for atypical hours. That can only mean one of two things, that the Government will abolish special arrangements for those with atypical hours or that it will reduce the rate of pay for those with atypical hours. People in this category are, by and large, poorly paid, including those in the hospitality and tourism industry. Will changes proposed by the Government cover existing employees or will it be confined, as it should be, to new entrants?

High Court proceedings, on which a judgment is imminent, are challenging the JLCs. Does the Minister have a contingency plan in the event of the challenge succeeding?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Deputy for his generous words of congratulation and I look forward to a fruitful exchange with Deputy O'Dea. He has immense experience and I am sure he will bring that to bear on our work at this important time. Legislative proposals will be needed and the timescale hinges on getting the drafting done and getting the necessary legislative time. That rules my ambition to get this through as quickly as possible. I have an advantage in that the previous Government had some legislation prepared dealing with some elements prior to this review being initiated. That is the vehicle that can be used with suitable amendments. Hopefully it will shorten the period.

The inconsistent approach to atypical hours has been raised as an issue. The terms of reference were set by the previous Government and explicitly referred to anomalies, obsolete provisions and inflexibilities. It also considered whether there was a need to move to a more streamlined approach in many of these areas. There are proposals to make changes in these areas and we must make decisions on their implementation. I will not be indicating these until I discuss it with my colleagues, publish a report and get reaction generally.

Wherever there is change in respect of JLCs and REAs, it will apply generally rather than only to new entrants. These tools set employment orders for an entire sector. It does not follow that they would only apply to new entrants. It is a way of making the system more flexible. I am conscious of challenges to the system, and clearly some of the legislative proposals prepared were with a view to making it more robust. There has been criticism of the way the system operates. We must respond to any finding in the High Court appropriately.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The joint labour committees and the registered employment agreements are the main mechanism through which the lowest paid workers are protected. This affects 400,000 of the lowest paid workers in the State, who have already been hammered by child benefit cuts and the universal social charge. They are really struggling. Can the Minister give reassurance to those workers, who are deeply anxious about what the review means in terms of further attacks on their wages and conditions? Does the Minister have the review, when will it be published and will there be a chance to debate it in the Chamber before the summer or as soon as possible so we can see what is proposed, the Minister's response and so the workers affected can have their say on it? Can the Minister guarantee these workers they have no reason to fear the review of wages and conditions for the lowest paid being considered will result in an attack on the structures that allow some regulation in these sectors? In many cases, these are casual or part-time workers in difficult employment circumstances and are contract cleaners, retail workers and people in the catering industry. The anxiety is justified given that it is part of the conditions of the IMF-EU deal to examine these agreements. Everything else from that deal has meant cuts, austerity and attacks on existing wages and conditions. Can the Minister guarantee this will not result in attacks on wages and conditions of the lowest paid workers in the State?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The first act of Government will be to restore the national minimum wage. The most vulnerable workers on the lowest rate of pay will be protected by the action we propose. That is a significant reversal of the position. Wage setting mechanisms must be fit for purpose and must be sensitive to the conditions in these sectors. The main sectors affected are retail, catering, hotels and construction. In the past three years, we have seen a 60% loss of employment in construction, 15% in retail and wholesale and more than twice that in the lower paid occupations. The figures are similar for hotel and catering, with over 20% of jobs lost. We must be sensitive to the relationship between wage setting mechanisms that, as the terms of reference mention, have anomalies, obsolete provisions and inflexibility. Against a background of such job attrition we must ensure the wage setting mechanisms are fit for purpose. There will be changes in the way these systems work. There is a call for reform coming from the report and reform proposals will be brought forward, but they will be designed to create more and better employment opportunities to give people more opportunity to work in these sectors against a background of huge attrition. I am conscious that there is considerable pressure on employers in these sectors as well. The pay rates here are much higher than north of the Border. There are real pressures in these sectors and real job losses occurring, and the system of wage setting must be sensitive to those pressures also.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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A Cheann Comhairle-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will call Deputy O'Dea and then the Deputy. There is only one minute remaining for this question.

Photo of Willie O'DeaWillie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail)
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The Minister has confirmed that this will not be confined to new interests. I urge him to fast-track the legislation in view of the fact that this will be hanging over people, so to speak. Also, can the Minister confirm at this stage that, inevitably, this will result in some diminution in pay for at least some of those workers?

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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On a point of order, a Cheann Comhairle, can another Member come in on Priority Questions?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Two questions were taken together.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Apologies. I am slightly worried by the Minister's answer. In so far as job losses are taking place in these areas, I and many reasonable people would argue it is the lack of demand in the economy that results in people's incomes being slashed. What I and the workers in this sector are looking for is an assurance that while there may be anomalies, and the unions and so on involved recognise there are some anomalies, straightening out anomalies will not result in an attack on the pay, conditions or the mechanism that guarantees the reasonable and basic minimum pay and condition standards for some of the lowest paid workers in the State who have already been hammered with cuts. Can the Minister give that assurance and can he indicate when this legislation will be published-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are running out of time on this question.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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-----to allow us have a proper debate?

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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I would hope to publish this soon and I would hope to follow it up rapidly with legislative proposals to ensure there will not be a long hiatus. I accept we must be conscious of the needs of people who are on low pay, and that is the reason we have increased the national minimum wage, but we cannot have systems regarding, for example, varied approaches to overtime and Sunday working that are common across different regulations. These create inflexibilities, and we must see greater order and standardisation in the approach in different areas.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Levelling up or down?