Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach his role regarding public service reform; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6578/11]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach his engagement with the implementation of the Croke Park deal [6653/11]

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

Through the implementation of the commitments in the programme for Government, this Government will introduce the most ambitious programme of public service reform since the foundation of the State. Public service reform is a central priority for the Government and for me personally and that is why I have appointed a senior Minister with full cabinet responsibility for that agenda. It is our objective to have a leaner, more effective and better value for money public service, something which is in the interests of everyone in this country.

The cost of delivering public services must be reduced further and this will be done through the planned reduction in public service numbers and through greater efficiencies in the way in which public services are delivered. The reform programme, including the highly significant comprehensive spending review, will be led by the Minister, Deputy Brendan Howlin, and Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes. Of course, it is the responsibility of all Ministers to ensure the public service reform programme is implemented with energy and commitment in their Departments and sectors.

The Government intends to use the full potential of the Croke Park agreement to support the reform programme and to deliver greater flexibility, redeployment and changed work practices. We must have full implementation of the many commitments to efficiency and reform in the agreement and, notwithstanding progress to date, it is clear that the pace of change under the agreement needs to be accelerated in order that savings can by achieved and services delivered more effectively, with significantly reduced staff numbers and a stronger focus on the citizen.

In terms of the future role of my Department, at present the public service modernisation division of the Department is involved in a wide range of work in the public service reform area, including implementation of the Croke Park agreement, the senior public service and the organisational review programme, to mention just a few areas. Arrangements to transfer the functions and staff of this division to the new Department of Public Expenditure and Reform once it has been formally established are being finalised. In the meantime, the division is continuing its work in close co-operation with its counterparts in the public service management and development division in the Department of Finance.

In conclusion, I plan to maintain a very strong interest in the public service reform programme and I will chair a Cabinet committee of all the relevant Ministers to oversee the Government's programme in this important area. I look forward to working closely with Deputy Howlin and others in this regard. Deputies may be assured that public service reform will be kept firmly at the centre of this Government's thinking and its actions and I look forward to real progress being delivered in the near future.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin supports efficiency and an end to waste and bureaucracy in all sectors, including the public sector. Would the Taoiseach agree that reform and productivity can and should be achieved in co-operation with workers' representatives and not through threats of payoffs? We have the shameful position of Labour Party Ministers speaking about the consequences for public service workers, pay cuts and so on.

Nuair a chuir mé ceist ar an Taoiseach níos luaithe, bhí mé ag lorg freagra soiléir mar chuir mé ceist shoiléir. Tá mé ag cur cúpla ceist shoiléir arís anois. When will the spending review be completed? Will there also be consequences, in terms of pay cuts, for those at the top of the scale? What level of cuts is the Taoiseach seeking from this process?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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On the spending review, we have set in place a process and agreed it. It will be completed by September or October. Each Minister will have examined the sections and sectors in his or her Department in respect of a review of how the money was effectively spent, which will feed into the preparation of the budget for 2012. As the Deputy is aware, the Government has signed on for fiscal targets which simply have to be achieved and that is the reason why, for the first time ever, we will have this scale of comprehensive analysis of what spending actually takes place. The spending review will not examine the presentation of the budget for 2012. Rather, it will examine the effectiveness of how moneys Voted to Departments and Ministries for this year are actually being spent.

This is an agreement that has been made, signed off on and voted on in the House. I made it perfectly clear that when the Croke Park agreement was put together that we respected its public pay element. As the Deputy is aware, the IMF and EU deal sets out certain conditions that simply have to be achieved. Ministers who have been pointing out the reality of that are talking about what is in the conditions which were signed off on by the previous Government and the EU and IMF.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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On my question on the Croke Park agreement, the Taoiseach seems to preface everything by trying to blame others. The bottom line is whether he agrees with the assertion of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, that if the Croke Park agreement does not deliver the required savings the option that will be chosen will be a further cut in the pay of public servants.

In terms of the spending review, is the Taoiseach not aware that a comprehensive review of public spending exists, namely, the report of the economist Colm McCarthy, known as the an bord snip review? It is quite comprehensive and provides a wide range of options to Ministers and the Government to get on with, rather than kicking the can down the road to September. The Government has accepted the €6 billion budget which was introduced last year by the outgoing Government. The current Government described it as "savage" but accepted it and the parameters of cuts of €3 billion for next year.

Given the growth rates are not materialising it is very clear there may need to be adjustments to that figure. The key question is whether the Taoiseach accepts the assertion of the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, in terms of cuts in public service pay. Would the Taoiseach accept there has already been a comprehensive spending review?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, and others are merely pointing out that a condition of the IMF and EU deal is that if by the appropriate date the terms of the agreement have not been delivered there will have to be some consequences. It is not a threat, it is a reality. While some savings have been achieved, it is an agreement that needs to be accelerated. It was signed off on and has been difficult to accept for some people, but it is an agreement that is in place. We want to see it implemented in full.

We do not want to see a situation whereby the consequences for numbers or pay are forced upon us. That will not be necessary if the agreement is delivered on in full. That is why the pace of change and the delivery of more effective services needs to be accelerated.

Gerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I asked if there were consequences and pay cuts for those at the very top of the scale. The Labour Party Minister and the Taoiseach have repeated that there will be consequences. A lot of the people involved are low paid workers who provide front-line services which are essential for the welfare of citizens and those who are vulnerable. Once again we are told this is to satisfy the IMF and EU.

There is waste as well as huge salaries at the top of the public service. Mar a dúirt mé cúpla uair, tá mé ag lorg freagra soiléir. Will there also be consequences for those at the very top? Will they include capping their salaries? Will pay cuts also be introduced?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Given the concerns of the Taoiseach about the pace of the implementation of the agreement and flexibilities to be achieved, has he met the leaders of the public service unions and ICTU in regard to the Croke Park agreement?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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No, I have not met them yet. Deputy Howlin has met the implementation body. I will be able to meet them in due course. Under the public service agreement, the position on public service pay must be reviewed on an annual basis and this will happen before 30 June. This will take account of sustainable savings generated from the implementation of the agreement. The agreement states that in the event of sufficient savings being identified in the spring 2011 review, priority in pay will be given to public servants with pay rates of €35,000 or less. There is recognition of the stress in that. The EU-IMF programme states that by the end of the third quarter of 2011, the Government "will consider an appropriate adjustment, including in the overall public service wage bill, to compensate for potential shortfalls in the projected savings arising from administrative efficiencies and public service number reductions." That is in the agreement and that is why it is necessary everybody understands that this is an agreement that simply must be effectively implemented. That is why it must be speeded up.

Joe Higgins (Dublin West, Socialist Party)
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Does the Taoiseach agree that public sector reform and the Croke Park agreement are really a crude cover for cutting thousands of jobs in the public sector? Does he agree that this will have severely damaging effects? The OECD stated just a few years ago that we had a small public sector compared with many other EU countries. How does he feel about this disgraceful blackmailing by Labour Party Ministers, who are threatening more wage cuts on low and middle income workers, while his Government does not introduce cuts for gambling billionaire bondholders?

The Taoiseach stated just a few minutes ago that public sector reform must result in significantly reduced staff numbers. Is he aware that the reduction of numbers in the health service has already put intolerable pressure on staff members delivering the service and a deterioration in the quality of service to the community? How does that square with the Government putting a potential €70 billion into banks to cover the debts of bondholders?

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I will allow a very short supplementary question from Deputy Boyd Barrett and then I will move on.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Apart from the injustice of visiting pay cuts on low and middle income public sector workers, what about the economic irrationality of it? If the Government takes money out of the pockets of ordinary workers who spend in the economy, it has a detrimental effect because demand is reduced and the economy contracts. The only public sector reform we should examine is one that deals with excessively high salaries of those paid with public money, whether it is in the top end of the Civil Service, semi-State bodies, politicians or bankers. These are the people who should take the hit, rather than ordinary low and middle income workers who have already been slaughtered with pay cuts.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The OECD produces a myriad of reports, some of which are very detailed and are of value in their own right. This country is in serious difficulty and we must provide a more efficient and effective public service with smaller numbers. That is not to decry the heroic efforts of many people in the public service who strive constantly to deliver the best service in very trying conditions. I speak particularly of those in the health, education and justice areas.

The European Union had no interest in making subordinated bondholders share the burden, but that has now happened. The Government has made it quite clear that bondholders in Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide Building Society are in a different category to those in the two pillar banks of AIB and Bank of Ireland. To answer Deputy Boyd Barrett's comments about high earners, taxation levels and levies hit all earners. The universal social charge is something that the Government will review in its preparation for the 2012 budget.

The planned reduction of between 18,000 and 21,000 in public service numbers by 2014 is through voluntary redundancy only. The human resource manager of the HSE stated some time ago that 700 people could do the jobs of the 2,000 personnel in one sector, which is why there was such a take up in such a short time of the offer of voluntary redundancy by the HSE. This is necessary to achieve a more cost effective, down-sized public service. That is not easy for many people, but unfortunately it must be done.