Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement in relation to the company that has been contracted to conduct the national census currently underway and to confirm if this firm is a foreign based company (details supplied) and if his attention has been drawn to the allegations that have been made against this company in the United States that it was involved in torture and interrogation on behalf of the US military in Abu Ghraib prison and in other US run prisons in Iraq [6025/11]

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach the role of CACI (UK) in the current census of population; the financial value of the contract and the protection that exists for citizens regarding the data collected [6576/11]

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 and 3 together.

The 2011 census is being organised and carried out by the Central Statistics Office, CSO. The fieldwork is being undertaken by field staff directly recruited by the office while the results will be processed by CSO staff in the CSO census office located in Swords, County Dublin.

The census is a major undertaking for the CSO and contractors have been appointed to assist with specialised parts of the work. An outside contractor, CACI (UK) Limited, was awarded the €6.7 million contract following a public procurement process to provide the CSO with an integrated forms processing system. CACI (UK) Limited specified and procured the hardware, software and subcontracted the printing of census forms optimised for scanning by the system. The system will be managed and operated by CSO staff, with the technical support of a small number of CACI (UK) Limited employees to process the completed census forms in the second half of this year. The completed census forms, and any resultant databases of the returns created during the processing, will at all stages be completely under the control of the CSO and subject to the stringent confidentiality requirements of the Statistics Act 1993.

The selection of the contractor was subject to, and complied fully with, European Union open procurement rules. CACI (UK) Limited has developed specialist skills in the area of high-volume forms processing systems and won a similar contract for the 2002 and 2006 censuses. No allegations have been made in respect of any direct involvement by CACI (UK) Limited in the types of activities mentioned by the Deputy.

However, the CSO is aware that in spring 2004 an allegation was made that an employee of CACI International - which is the parent company of CACI (UK) Limited, based in the United States - was involved in the mistreatment of detainees at Abu Ghraib Prison in Iraq. CACI (UK) Limited states that this allegation was not substantiated by any evidence or proof at the time it was made, and subsequent investigations by both CACI International and the United States Government could not confirm it. CACI International has stated publicly that it takes this allegation extremely seriously, that it does not condone, tolerate or endorse any illegal behaviour by its employees in any circumstances or at any time, and that it has held in the past, and always will hold, itself to the highest ethical standards.

As a public body, the Central Statistics Office is fundamentally committed to ethical and proper conduct in all matters and would never consider any dealings with a company convicted of human rights abuse. European Union procurement rules allow bidders to be excluded if they have been convicted of certain criminal or other offences. However, as none of these exclusions applies to CACI (UK) Limited, or to its United States parent, the CSO has retained the services of CACI (UK) Limited to assist in the efficient processing of the 2011 census returns.

Everybody in this House should be encouraging every household to participate fully in the census and to visit the census website to get a feel for the enormous benefits the census information will bring to Ireland in the coming years.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government is not taking on board the serious question marks that stand over the extremely sensitive and comprehensive information about Irish citizens that will be gathered by the census. To say that CACI International has not been prosecuted is not dealing with the issue. CACI International currently has-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is Question Time; the Deputy cannot make statements or put points to the Minister of State.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking whether the Minister of State-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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We had this on the Adjournment last week and now at Question Time. Does the Deputy have a question to put?

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking a question. Will the Minister of State explain why the Government does not have greater concern about the integrity of the census given that there are 200 Iraqi plaintiffs seeking to mount lawsuits over CACI International's involvement in Abu Ghraib Prison. There are another four Iraqi plaintiffs before the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit in Richmond, Virginia. In so far as CACI International has prevented proceedings in other cases that have been taken against it, it is because the United States Court of Appeals ruled that the company falls under the United States military chain of command and thus has Government contractor immunity-----

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question? I repeat that Question Time is not a time for statements.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am asking the Minister of State about a very serious matter.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must put a question.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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He is not responding to the question I asked.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy cannot use Question Time for statements.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I am not making a statement. I am asking whether the Government takes these matters seriously. CACI International has avoided legal cases against it by seeking immunity on the basis of its status as a defence contractor, with most of its income coming from the Pentagon. These are serious allegations and simply to point out that the company has not been prosecuted is not good enough.

There are serious issues regarding the census. Some people - and I am not suggesting they should do so - are saying they will not fill out the census form because of the questions arising from the involvement of CACI (UK) Limited. What will the Government do to guarantee the security and integrity of the census and to reassure the many people who are deeply concerned about it?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that the Government and the CSO have taken this issue extremely seriously. I would be very disappointed if a Member of this House were in any way encouraging people not to fill out the census form.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I said I was not encouraging them to do so.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy should in fact be encouraging people to fill out the forms.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Government should be reassuring people about the integrity of the data.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I have encouraged and will continue to encourage people to fill out the forms. I am not sure whether the Deputy fully understands the importance of the census.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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I understand its importance.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The results of the census will be used for the benefit of future generations by informing Government policy. I am sure the local authority in the Deputy's area will make use of the data.

I assure him that the company contracted by the CSO is of the highest integrity. This company was employed previously by the CSO, in the 2002 and 2006 censuses, and at no stage did any information go astray. The company has the highest standards of confidentiality. All data from the census forms go back to the central office in Swords and all the information is collaborated there. The data do not go to any company in the United Kingdom or elsewhere. The company in question is contracted to format the questionnaire and manage the computer system. Under no circumstances will the data go elsewhere.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This company is providing the hardware, software and the data processing systems for the census process. Can the Minister of State assure us that the company has no access to the information in the census? Is he aware that the Registrar General in Scotland, where a census is also being conducted, has observed that the "sneak and peek warrants" provided for in the United States PATRIOT Act would allow the CIA or the United States Government "secretly to enter a business, either physically or virtually, conduct a search and depart without taking any tangible evidence or leaving notice of their presence." That is what American law allows to be done to American companies. Can the Minister of State guarantee that the company in question will not have access to the census information and, consequently, that the American military or intelligence services will not also have access to it?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The CSO has received correspondence from the public expressing concerns that the Irish census data are being processed by a United States company and that this information could ultimately be used by United States national security. I assure the Deputy that those concerns are entirely inaccurate on two counts. First, CACI Limited is a corporate United Kingdom entity and is subject to the laws of that jurisdiction; it is not subject to the laws of the United States. CACI International, an American parent company, is not involved in any way in the preparation or delivery of systems for the Irish census. Second, the United States PATRIOT Act applies only to data held in information technology systems owned and operated by the company. This does not apply to the processing of census 2011 and under no circumstances could the Act be employed to request data held by the CSO.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Just so the Official Report is correct, is it not correct that the Minister of State's reference to CACI was to CACI UK Limited?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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Yes, I apologise.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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While I do not wish to be repetitive, these issues are being raised precisely because of the importance of the census. Citizens have genuine concerns, given the private and medical information that is being collected in it. I do not believe the Minister of State has answered the questions fully. As supplementary questions, where is and what is the interface with the CSO staff based in Swords? As the aforementioned company supplies the hardware and software, how many CACI operatives, for example, will be present when the information goes back to Swords? Thereafter, during the processing of the forms, what will happen to the hardware, where will it be stored and will it be destroyed? What will happen to the software? These are the issues that are causing concern and when one considers the standards that are being adopted, it is not good enough to state that the parent company has never been convicted. It operates under the United States of America's rules of engagement, which permit highly unacceptable practices. While they may not be unlawful, they would be deemed unacceptable by most Irish citizens, such as permitting sleep deprivation, sensory deprivation and so on. The question is, out of all the companies in the world, why did the Government choose one the expertise of which is as professional interrogators and, in the main, as operators of defence contracts? All the companies it owns are military-based and deal with interrogation and defence. This does not sit neatly with the exceptionally important issues that are raised in the census. Consequently, the Minister of State should provide a little more information in respect of the number of staff, the interface and what will happen afterwards.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy that the contract of €6.7 million was awarded to this company following a public procurement process to provide the CSO with an integrated forms processing system. Everyone and anyone was allowed to apply within that process and this was the successful company. As I stated from the outset, this company was used in 2002 and 2006 and no information from the Irish Central Statistics Office has escaped in any way and the process was completely confidential.

Richard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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How does the Minister of State know?

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I assure the Deputy of this. Only a small number of people have complained to the CSO about this company. Only a minimal number of people have made any form of complaint. Most people, both nationwide and in this House, are encouraging people to fill out their census forms next Sunday evening. It is important to encourage people to so do and to avoid placing doubt in anyone's mind to the effect that his or her information will be leaked or used by a foreign company for any reason.

Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)
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With respect, one should do this by answering precisely the concerns people have but the Minister of State has not done so. All Deputies have received quite widespread correspondence with regard to raising concerns about this matter. How does one know the data have not been lost? One simply does not know this and they may have been. Moreover, the Minister of State has not outlined how many operatives are involved, what is the connection with the CSO staff or what will happen to the hardware and software thereafter. The Minister of State needs to deal with these issues to encourage citizens to participate in this census but he has not done so. It would be helpful were he to respond by answering some of those questions.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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I understand Deputies Boyd Barrett and Daly are the only two Members who have raised this concern with the CSO. I answered questions on this issue during the Adjournment debate last week and have returned to it again this morning. The Central Statistics Office has been answering questions on the national airwaves and on all occasions, its representatives have mentioned the office's confidentiality and the manner in which it runs its business. I reiterate that confidentiality is a huge issue and will continue to be so for the operation of the CSO.