Dáil debates

Wednesday, 23 March 2011

3:00 pm

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Question 14: To ask the Minister for Finance when the planned review of the universal social charge will be completed. [5420/11]

Photo of Aengus Ó SnodaighAengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Question 18: To ask the Minister for Finance when he will review the universal social charge; the persons who will undertake the review; the terms of reference that will be used for the review; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [5404/11]

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 18 together. There is a commitment in the new programme for Government to review the universal social charge. The terms of reference and other matters relating to the review have yet to be finalised. I expect the terms of reference to be finalised shortly. I anticipate that the review will be completed in time for the 2012 budget.

Photo of Michael McGrathMichael McGrath (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Minister for his brief reply. Since the universal social charge was introduced in last December's budget, it has been the subject of very strong criticism from what were then Opposition parties and it formed an important part of the general election campaign, where it was made clear there would be changes to the charge. People were led to understand those changes would happen sooner rather than later. There will be much disappointment that any review would now be in the context of the 2012 budget.

What is the Minister's thinking at this stage with regard to changing the universal social charge? I know he commented in the past on the impact on people with low incomes and those who have become known as the working poor. Without pre-empting the process, can he given an indication of where changes are likely to be made? Given that changes must be fiscally neutral, where will savings be made to offset the reduction in income from the charge?

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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The incoming Government cannot do everything at once and certainly not in the first ten days in office. Our commitment to review does not equal immediate reductions. I indicated during the election campaign that options were given to the Department of Finance; those which were worth doing seemed to cost too much and those which cost little did not seem worth doing. We made it clear at the end of the election campaign that we would not bring forward policy proposals at that point but we committed to a review. The terms of reference of the review are being drafted and we will have them shortly. The review can then take place and we will see the options in the context of budgetary decisions for 2012.

Photo of Pearse DohertyPearse Doherty (Donegal South West, Sinn Fein)
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The universal social charge breaks the basic fundamental principle of progressive taxation because it asks those who have the least to pay. It is a tax on the working poor and very low income earners, with those on as low as €77 per week paying the charge. The exemptions which previously existed for income levies - such as for those with medical cards, working lone parents, working widows and those over 70 - are all gone. They have been hit particularly hard. We know about the review but we also know people in our constituencies who are suffering as a result of this universal social charge. Reviews do not cut it for such people as it does not put bread on the table or food in the cupboards. We need early movement on this.

With regard to the terms of the review, when the universal social charge was debated in this House the Minister stated that the floor of the universal charge - at approximately €4,000 - represents a very low income and the Minister should have accepted an amendment to raise the threshold by €1,000. Is that still the view of the Minister? Would it be acceptable, in the Minister's own words, to increase the threshold to €5,000? That would, in effect, mean that those earning €97 per week would pay a universal social charge on all of their earnings. Is that the basis of the review? The Minister replied on the terms of the review and I hope they will be published and debated well in the House before the review takes place.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Deputy, in his part of the country, would be familiar with a phrase common in my part of the country. It is that if somebody has a dog, that person should not bark. If we are to have a review, we will let that process formulate proposals. If I followed the Deputy's request and announced my views before the review, it would prevent a valid review. We will have a valid review of the issues and take up many of the points made. If any Deputy or party in the House wishes to make a submission to the review, it would be welcome and carefully considered. While we all know the charge impacts heavily on certain people, we also know the reasons the previous Government decided to introduce this imposition. Submissions to the review will be taken into account and carefully considered.

The country is in such a dire fiscal and economic state that all assistance from the parties opposite is welcome as are any progressive moves that will assist individual citizens or help to relieve the problem as a whole. The review will culminate in measures in the 2012 budget. In the meantime, I invite the Deputies and parties opposite to participate by submission.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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The Minister stated that there will be a review of the universal social charge, that the charge must be examined and so forth, which is fair enough in as far as it goes. However, given the cruel injustice that the charge represents for low and middle income workers and families, the review must be undertaken urgently. The universal social charge is damaging people who are barely making ends meet. In some cases, people are in danger of going under in terms of meeting bills, paying mortgages and so forth.

The review must address the injustice of imposing the universal social charge on those who cannot afford to pay it. Instead of imposing it on people who cannot afford it, will the Minister examine or consider examining the case for taxing those with enormous wealth who have been untouched? Was he not as shocked as I and most of the country were to learn in the Sunday newspapers published the weekend before last that the 300 richest people in this country have €57 billion in personal wealth and that their wealth increased by €6.7 billion in the past year?

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should confine his remarks to the universal social charge.

Photo of Richard Boyd BarrettRichard Boyd Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, People Before Profit Alliance)
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This is the same as the amount the previous Government took from ordinary people in its final budget. The Government should tax those who are wealthy and have acquired more wealth in the past year and relieve the burden imposed on those who cannot afford to pay the universal social charge.

Photo of Brian Lenihan JnrBrian Lenihan Jnr (Dublin West, Fianna Fail)
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Considerable progress was made in the previous budget on the unification of the amount of PRSI at the employee level. Will the review examine whether PRSI should be consolidated with the universal social charge in the next budget?

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Sinn Féin does not accept that there must be a review, although we may have to deal with it as a de facto consequence of Government policy. The universal social charge is an oppressive tax which the Minister stated he inherited from another Government. Does he agree it is bad economics to cut the incomes of people who cannot afford not to spend the money they have? By taking money from such people we stop cashflow in local communities. Not only do people become impoverished but they are driven further into depression, anxiety and distress. Another approach is available. As others have suggested and Sinn Féin has argued, a new tax band should be introduced for those who can afford to pay in order that we can proceed without the awful social consequences which have been created by this oppressive tax on the working poor.

Photo of Michael NoonanMichael Noonan (Limerick City, Fine Gael)
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In the current context if Deputies want to participate in a movement for change on this tax, they should participate in and submit proposals to the review. Proposals cannot be one sided. Everybody knows what people are against. I ask the parties and Deputies opposite to include with their proposals alternative suggestions for raising the tax foregone, possibly along the lines of the suggestion made by Deputy Boyd Barrett.

On Deputy Lenihan's question, the terms of reference of the review are being considered and have not yet been drafted. I will consider his comments on the consolidation of PRSI in the universal social charge and ascertain whether his suggestion is a runner.