Dáil debates

Wednesday, 23 March 2011

10:30 am

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yesterday, a deeply disturbing report was issued on the award of the most valuable commercial licence given by any Government in the history of the State. By any objective measure, it is a profoundly disturbing report, yet the principal response of the Government has been to not comment publicly while privately briefing that it is only really relevant to the actions of one man. This Government is made up of people who have spent years, and made careers from, jumping to their feet in the House and demanding urgent responses on real and imagined transgressions far less serious than the matters dealt with by Mr. Justice Moriarty. However, yesterday not a single statement on the report was issued by the legions of Deputies on the Government benches.

Fine Gael has no difficulty privately briefing that it has no concerns about this report but it has still refused to make a spokesperson available to any of the main media or political programmes on this issue. The Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, managed to deliver a statement on the report in the House yesterday without using the two words "Fine Gael". The Taoiseach said yesterday that he had not read the report and Deputy Rabbitte said he had not read it in its entirety but said he believed the licence process had been hermetically sealed, or at least he was led to believe it had been so. The Labour Party's silence on this issue today has been truly deafening.

Yesterday, the Taoiseach avoided all questions, pleading no knowledge of the report's findings. As Taoiseach, Leader of Fine Gael, a participant in the fund-raising practices detailed in this report and as a member of the Cabinet which awarded an immensely valuable licence, he must have seen by now the report's findings as they relate to his party. He must have seen the evidence, for example, about the concealed donation of $50,000-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, I am coming to that. The Taoiseach must also have seen the role Fine Gael fund-raising played in the strategy to win the licence and he must surely have taken the time to reflect on Mr. Justice Moriarty's decision to take the word of Mr. Mark FitzGerald over that of Mr. Denis O'Brien and, critically, his colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Hogan. He must have taken time to recollect meeting an Esat representative or a member of some consortium two days before the licence was awarded. What has the Taoiseach done to check the tribunal's statements concerning these matters? Has he taken the time available to ask the Minister, Deputy Hogan, to explain himself or, has he asked the other five members of the Government who were in the Cabinet when this licence was rushed through to comment on this report?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I noted Deputy Martin's opening comment. This is a report to the Clerk of the Dáil for the Houses of the Oireachtas. I have read the key points of the report. It is a serious report and makes particular recommendations. In consideration of those key points I have asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to refer the report to the Director of Public Prosecutions, DPP, and to the Garda Commissioner for their consideration.

I have also asked the Government Chief Whip to make arrangements for a proper debate as early as possible next week in consultation with the Whips of the other parties. We will arrange for questions to be dealt with at the end of that debate. This is unlike what happened when the first report of Mr. Justice Moriarty on the activities of a former leader of the Deputy's party was published on 19 December 2006. There were no statements on it in the House until 14 February 2007 and no questions were permitted. Far from the insinuations the Deputy continues to make, I am anxious to ensure that what happens in this House is right and is in the best interests of learning lessons from the findings of the Moriarty tribunal. For that reason, I have asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to refer the report to the competent authorities for their consideration with regard to any action they might consider necessary.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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It is far more than just a report to the Clerk of the Dáil; it is a report on the most lucrative contract awarded in the history of the State. The Dáil record is full of examples of the Taoiseach demanding answers within much less than the 24 hours he has now had. The Taoiseach was in Government when the licence was awarded and he participated in fund-raising events targeted by Esat to help that company win the licence. The Taoiseach was already Leader of Fine Gael in 2003 when journalists tried, and failed, to get an answer or comment from him about the secret $50,000 donation-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question?

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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If the Taoiseach has not asked his colleagues about the specific point raised in the report regarding their individual and collective actions, people have a right to ask why. Fine Gael and its handlers appear to hope the story will get lost in the crush of events in the next week, but that will not happen. Does the Taoiseach accept that the findings of the Moriarty report are very serious with regard to Fine Gael's fund-raising practices and the link between those and a major Government decision?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Deputy has accepted the findings of the report. He is aware that the report exonerates party leaders and members of the Cabinet in its findings; that is part of the findings. The Deputy might like to clarify my involvement in fund-raising with Esat. I am anxious to hear his elaboration on that-----

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Quite clearly-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Let me finish. I regard the donation of $50,000 to the Fine Gael Party as wrong. When the then leader of the party, former Taoiseach Mr. John Bruton, was made aware of it, he asked that it be returned immediately. I regret the circuitous route it had to follow before it was returned to Mr. O'Brien.

Fine Gael is criticised in the report for not overriding the legal advice it received from an eminent senior counsel. The party made available to that senior counsel all the documentation, evidence, notes and references to meetings so the counsel could give an opinion. That opinion was that the donation was not within the remit of the Moriarty tribunal. Mr. Justice Moriarty took a different view. When the matter was leaked and became public knowledge, the then leader of the party, Deputy Noonan, not only took the decision to refer the entire file to the Moriarty tribunal but waived a right to legal representation in respect of that matter, for which the Fine Gael Party was commended by the tribunal. Far from any cover-up taking place, the Fine Gael Party chose an eminent senior counsel to get an opinion, took that advice and when the matter became public in a different way, the then party leader referred the entire file to the tribunal.

I do not think anybody else has done that, namely, waived the party's entitlement to legal privilege on the basis of seeing that everything was absolutely above board and things were done as they should be. From my point of view, I want to see that the right thing is done. No leader of the Fine Gael Party ever pocketed the proceeds from whip-arounds at dinners.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin has some record in talking about fund-raising activities and reputational damage to our country from party activities.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I have two questions. This issue is being debated on the airwaves, in television studios, in coffee rooms and front rooms all over this island and, for all we know, in different parts of the world where there is an interest in Irish affairs. It is not being debated in this House. Why are we being prevented from having a change in the Order of Business to allow debate to proceed this afternoon? This is a pressing issue, one of the most important issues facing the Government at this time. I come back to what the Taoiseach has referred to consistently, the gap between the governed and the Government, between citizens and the people in the political class. That gap is widened by the refusal to have the type of debate that is required.

Second, I commend to the Taoiseach the part of the Moriarty report which deals with the $50,000 donation to Fine Gael. It reads like a novel. It tells how a payment was solicited on behalf of Fine Gael, how this was to be done at a dinner which would be attended by the then Taoiseach and then Ministers, Deputies Lowry, Barrett, Ivan Yates, Kenny, and Mr. Peter Sutherland. We are also conscious that at the time Deputies Bruton, Howlin, Quinn, Noonan, Kenny, Lowry and Barrett were Ministers. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Hogan, is also named in the report.

After many very convoluted processes it fell on that unfortunate man, Mr. Johansen, to make the donation. He said he would need "some form of paper documentation" and was told by the Fine Gael representative that he would be issued with an invoice and that this would be expressed as having been-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I remind the Deputy that this is Question Time.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Yes, I am coming to the question. The invoice would be expressed as having been for consultancy work. Mr. Johansen then asked how Fine Gael could recognise this as a donation and was told-----

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy must put a question rather then citing the report.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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He was told this was no problem. We are informed that the money was lodged to an offshore account.

Can the Taoiseach explain how any of this, in terms of offshore accounts, invoices, money laundering of a very classical kind-----

(Interruptions).

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Adams would know a great deal more about that than would anybody on this side of the House.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Adams's time has expired.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Well may you laugh, my friends. I made the point yesterday that if some unfortunate woman steals a loaf or a litre of milk she will end up in the Joy, but when this serious indictment of people on the Government benches is made they hurrah and laugh and guffaw.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely. This is not an issue for laughter.

Photo of Seán BarrettSeán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have called the Taoiseach.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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Fine Gael spent more than €2 million in the recent election. Will the Taoiseach let us know whether any other funds are being received from any of these sources?

A Deputy:

What about Northern Bank?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is funny that the counterfeiters laugh loudest.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I dtaobh an díospóireacht seo, tiocfaidh do lá. I want Deputy Adams to have a real opportunity to contribute to the debate arising from the report of the Moriarty tribunal. I have to go to Brussels tomorrow and prepare for a critical meeting of the European Council dealing with the legacy of the mess left by Deputy Martin and his party.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That runs to well more than €100 billion. A previous incumbent who stood in this spot said that Deputy Adams and his party were in possession of knowledge about the Northern Bank raid some years ago. We did not have much information about that from Deputy Adams. Perhaps now that he is a Member of this House he will deal with those serious amounts of money when he contributes next week to the debate on the Moriarty report.

I have asked the Government Whip to meet the other Whips to ensure there is a real opportunity for all Members to contribute to the debate. We will have questions at the end of it. I note that the report's recommendations, at 62-04, refers to the fact that one of the most significant contributions was the donation of $50,000 by Esat Digifone via Telenor to Fine Gael in 1995. That donation was unwelcome to the party and was rejected by the party leader. At section 6-23 - and I remind Deputy Martin that he has accepted the findings of the report - it is stated that the meetings that I and Deputy Bruton, as Ministers, had with Mr. O'Brien were "perfunctory encounters" and that "neither Minister in any event played any part in the decision taken by Government at the conclusion of the GSM process". If Deputy Martin accepts the findings of the report then I hope he is man enough in his statements outside the House to accept its findings in respect of the activities and participation of the members of that Cabinet who are represented in this Government. Those findings are very clear.

From that perspective I hope we can have a real debate on this matter next week unlike, as I said, in the case of the first Moriarty report-----

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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A Cheann Comhairle, it was I who asked the question, not Deputy Martin.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is supposed to be responding to Deputy Adams.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am replying to Deputy Adams. I am reminding him that in the case of the first Moriarty report into the activities of Mr. C. J. Haughey, published on 19 December 2006, there was no series of statements until 14 February 2007 and no questions were allowed. I have referred the second report, through the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, to the DPP and the Garda Commissioner. If they consider that action is appropriate then they are the competent authorities to follow suit. There will be a real debate here next week and there will be questions for the information of Deputy Adams. There might be some straying outside the remit of this where he might like to answer a few questions himself.

In so far as the activities of my party are concerned, it was the Rainbow Government that changed the legislation in respect of the contact between business and politics. As part of our programme for Government we intend to ban corporate donations completely, which the Fianna Fáil Party refused to do during its last three years in office.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Taoiseach is codding himself. His party raised money like hell up to the eve of the election. It raised massive funds in the past year. That is hypocrisy.

Photo of Alan ShatterAlan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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How can Deputy Martin say that word with a straight face?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I would also make the point when we speak about accountability that the Fianna Fáil Party would not even go so far as to publish the secret agreement it had with Deputy Lowry to stay in power.

Deputies:

Hear, hear.

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach did not answer one question.

A Deputy:

You did not ask any.

(Interruptions).

Photo of Gerry AdamsGerry Adams (Louth, Sinn Fein)
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I asked him detailed questions. He appears not to believe the person who sat in that seat when he made all sorts of statements, yet he chooses to throw a cheap jibe at us when we are, in a constructive way, trying to shed lights on these affairs. I will put the question again. Has Fine Gael received any moneys from any of these sources which have not been declared?

Coming back to the point about the Whips, there does not even need to be a meeting of the Whips; the Taoiseach could decide now to have a debate on these matters this afternoon. The only people being prevented from debating these matters are Teachtaí Dála and it is ludicrous that we are being prevented from having that debate. The Taoiseach is right about Fianna Fáil, but he cannot accuse Fianna Fáil of doing what it did when Fine Gael is doing the same thing.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am not doing exactly the same; I am doing something completely different. I have asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources to refer the report to the two competent authorities, the Garda Commissioner and the DPP. I do not know what sources Deputy Adams is talking about that may or may not have made contributions to anyone. I assure the Deputy that Fine Gael complies strictly with the law in so far as any political contributions are concerned. We intend to move swiftly to ban corporate donations completely to demonstrate a total break between any business and politics.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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I have some sympathy with the Taoiseach when he receives abuse for the transgressions on the spoils of war from the quarters from which he has received it today. I find it difficult to take because I see those who are accusing him as being equally guilty of things of which they are now accusing the Taoiseach.

That does not mean, however, that he should not answer for what happened at that time; of course he should. He has a unique opportunity to end the culture of cronyism that has cursed Irish politics for many years, not just during the period to which the Moriarty tribunal refers, but over the past 14 years.

Is the Taoiseach going to take measures to stop this culture of cronyism by reversing the decisions made by those accusing him of involvement in this, the outgoing Fianna Fáil Government, to appoint people on a blatantly political basis to the boards of semi-State organisations on its last day in office? I refer specifically to a former Fianna Fáil TD and former Fianna Fáil councillor. Those appointments, and others like them, should be reversed immediately and the Taoiseach should make no apology for doing so.

Will the Taoiseach take the initiative in a more general way to end the culture of cronyism? About eight months ago, the then Fine Gael spokesman on enterprise, Deputy Richard Bruton, at the MacGill Summer School on Irish politics, declared it was Fine Gael policy to dismiss all the boards of semi-State bodies when Fine Gael came to power. That is not in the programme for Government but it should be done.

His cheerleader on that day is sitting beside the Taoiseach - the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Eamon Gilmore, who supported that policy. Is it the Taoiseach's intention not only to dismiss those blatantly outrageous appointments on the last day of the interregnum, but also to move against the contamination of semi-State bodies that happened under the last Government?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I commend Deputy Ross on his comments. What happened in the hiatus between the election and the formation of the new Government was disgraceful and I am seeking legal advice on whether it is possible to reverse those decisions. One of the commitments in the programme for Government is for an oversight committee in the Oireachtas where those who wish to be considered for important positions on semi-State boards and in semi-State agencies would appear to put forward their credentials. I agree fully with the comments about the culture of cronyism and references to a previous Taoiseach who said many appointments he made were made on the basis of friendship, as distinct from merit.

Photo of Shane RossShane Ross (Dublin South, Independent)
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Will that the Taoiseach answer the question about moving against the semi-State boards, as pledged by Deputy Bruton? Will the Taoiseach end the system of political appointments to State bodies that has been so abused, not just by Fianna Fáil but by Fine Gael and the Labour Party in the past? There is no indication that the Government will end that abuse in the future. Many of us on the Independent benches see this as Tweedledum and Tweedledee, whereby when the Fianna Fáil guys go out, the Fine Gael and Labour Party guys come in. Can the Taoiseach give an assurance that will end by setting up a new system with an independent commission that is verified and passed by the Oireachtas, as promised by Deputy Bruton?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am interested in men and women of competence and merit serving where they can contribute to the well-being of the country. The Fianna Fáil Government made appointments based on friendship as distinct from merit.

Photo of Micheál MartinMicheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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What about Fine Gael? What did Fine Gael do when it was in office?

Photo of Jerry ButtimerJerry Buttimer (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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Deputy Martin should look at his own record. Who did he appoint?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Public Reform and Expenditure is currently preparing a memorandum for Government on appointments to semi-State bodies. We will debate that shortly. I am interested in putting an end to the blatant cronyism. I raised this before the former Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, left office, that between the election and the appointment of a new Government, no appointments should be made. It is a disgrace that appointments were made by a number of Ministers on their last day in office.