Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 6: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills if she intends to take any action on foot of the recently published Comptroller and Auditor General Report on Education spending; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [47606/10]

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I welcome the publication of Special Report No. 74 of the Comptroller and Auditor General, which covers a range of areas of education spending. The report is generally positive about the overall merits of the strategic innovation fund, while also highlighting some areas for improvement. A number of relevant measures have already been taken to implement previous similar recommendations of a mid-term evaluation of the fund conducted by the Higher Education Authority. The report is critical of the information on school attendance derived from periodic reporting to the NEWB. Periodic reporting is just one way by which schools report on individual student absence. In many cases, direct referrals are made to an education welfare officer. The NEWB is currently rolling out a programme called a 'New Way of Working', which was piloted in 2009 in an effort to standardise the intervention process and focus on early intervention. A reconfiguration of school attendance and participation services is also under way to achieve improved targeting and collaboration in delivery of services and better educational outcomes for all children. A cost overrun on a capital development at Cork Institute of Technology that was completed in 2005 is also examined. The substantive issue arising has since been addressed in the new public works contract introduced in 2007. An early retirement scheme in FETAC, aimed at reducing numbers in certain grades, is also dealt with. The early retirements were authorised by senior management in FETAC, although they did not have the statutory authority to do so. Legal advice in respect of the recovery or reassessment of unauthorised benefits has been obtained and is being considered. The report identifies issues relating to remuneration and expenses paid to a former director of the Royal Irish Academy of Music. The arrangements entered into with the former director were not approved by my Department and were taken up with the academy when this issue came to light. The salary and contractual arrangements for the post are now in line with comparable publicly funded institutions. Significant changes have also been made by the academy in respect of expenses arrangements which are now in line with public service norms. Finally, the report presents a good factual summary of matters already in the public domain relating to the residential institutions redress scheme.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In this audit and in earlier audits on education, the issue at stake is that the Minister was not consulted or asked to give his or her consent to the payments that were made. That is the key issue. For a period of nine years in a previous audit, the advice of the Higher Education Authority was not taken by UCD, UL or NUIG. The core of this issue is the lack of governance from the Department of Education and Skills over all of these bodies, even though they are ultimately accountable to the Minister. They refuse to be accountable. They do not listen to the HEA and they ignore the Minister. Is that not at the core of all this? If we are to have real transparency and accountability, then when the Minister says "No", then it should not happen.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That is the core of it. I believe there was discussion on this at the education committee on this issue, and I heard Deputy Quinn ask how many times did they not understand that the answer was "No". No means no. I pursued this issue. It is just not acceptable. The HEA did its utmost to ensure that these matters were addressed. That is why in the reform measures we will be bringing forward, I believe in the autonomy for the institutions, but I also believe that there must be value for the taxpayers' money. When circulars are not abided by, then there should be repercussions.

It is disappointing that this has happened, but I welcome the report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Now that we have dealt with many of the issues that I alluded to in my reply, I hope that people will accept that when the Department of Finance, the Department of Education and Skills and the HEA state that these are unauthorised, then they should be taken seriously.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The first proper job I had in this State, after I qualified with a postgraduate degree, was with Dublin City Council. I was told that if I made a mistake that cost the taxpayer money, I would be surcharged. Clearly, management in FETAC made a decision that cost the taxpayer a lot of money. The Department received legal advice that the decision was unauthorised and was in breach of the contracts. The people in question knew their responsibilities and would not be in their posts if they did not have some experience. What does the legal advice say? Will somebody pay? Can a charge be attached to the pension of a chief executive or to other executives who made that decision? When is this country going to get real about this kind of lax attitude to public money?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

FETAC had no sanction to grant those early retirement benefits and neither did the board.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I know that. The Department got legal advice.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

We got legal advice and I took it because it is a very serious issue that should never have happened. There has been an acceptance by the board and the CEO that the failure to ensure a statutory compliance was not deliberate, but that is beside the point.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

What does that mean?

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

But it did happen.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

This is the crowd that are measuring standards of adherence.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They accept there were serious failures to comply with legislative and administrative processes. The CEO accepts, as the accountable person, that there was a failure on his part to ensure that an early retirement package was fully compliant with all statutory requirements. In order to strengthen financial management and governance arrangements, the council is undertaking to put in place an arrangement for compliance sign off for all major executive decisions. A comprehensive governance manual is being developed. Risk management procedures are being strengthened and training in corporate governance is being arranged for staff.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will we get the money back?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Both FETAC and my Department have received legal advice in respect of the unsanctioned benefits, and this is being considered.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Will we get the money back?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is clearly my intention to proceed on that basis.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Did the Minister say she will proceed to recover the money? I did not hear exactly what she said.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Yes. I have gone after money in other organisations as well.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The big thing is that the Minister is not in charge and her officials are not in charge of the quangos under her control. The Minister has promised new legislation to sort out all this, but will we see it in the new year? Unless she is in charge of her Department, then these things will continue to happen. Right across the third level institutions, especially the universities, there have been a number of instances of moneys paid to people that should never have been paid. The problem is that the Minister is recovering some of that money by increasing student grants. There is a need for significant savings and accountability from third level institutions that are thumbing their noses at the Minister and the HEA. The only people who suffer are taxpayers and students. Everyone else gets away with it.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not accept that there should be any waste of taxpayers' money.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Then the Minister should adjust the pensions accordingly-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Allow the Tánaiste to conclude.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have to be guided by the legal advice made available to me from the Office of the Attorney General. We have looked at innovative ways to deal with these issues this week in the House. The other issue that causes constraint to any Minister for Education and Skills is that our third level universities are autonomous.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They are a law unto themselves.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

However, they must abide by the examination of the Comptroller and Auditor General of financial standards and governance.

Fergus O'Dowd (Louth, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The universities are running riot.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The legislation for a new qualification authority has been nearly completed in my Department. I hope to publish it early in the new year.