Dáil debates

Tuesday, 14 December 2010

Ceisteanna - Questions

National Recovery Plan

2:30 pm

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the way the proposals contained in the National Recovery Plan, 2011- 2014 will impact on his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45172/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the way it is intended to achieve the savings in his group of Votes set out in the National Recovery Plan 2011-2014; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45173/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if he has drafted an action plan under the Croke Park Agreement; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [45954/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the projected expenditure by him in 2011; the way that figure compares with the estimate for 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46017/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the arrangements he is putting in place for the implementation of those elements of the Government's National Recovery Plan that relate to his Department or the agencies under his aegis; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [46018/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his Department's estimates for 2011 [46961/10]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 6, inclusive, together.

Savings of up to €35 million will be implemented from my group of Votes, which includes the Office of the Attorney General, the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Central Statistics Office, CSO, by 2014. The focus of savings is primarily aimed at administrative efficiencies given that most of the expenditure across this group of Votes comprises administrative budgets. The total allocation for my Department in the Estimates set out in the budget book for 2011 is €25.062 million. This is an overall decrease of 15% - €4.394 million - on the 2010 Revised Estimates allocation. This includes a reduction of 15% in the administrative budget. Savings will be achieved through administrative and operational efficiencies as set out in the Department's action plan, which includes commitments with regard to staff numbers, budgets, procurement and shared services. In light of the nature of the work of the Department, the action plan is closely aligned with measures to improve the effectiveness of the Civil Service as a whole, in particular through enhanced mobility and shared service provision.

The outputs of the CSO are demand-driven to a large degree and respond to European Union and national statistical obligations. The CSO has also achieved operational savings and continues to prioritise work programmes in light of emerging budgets. The 2011 allocation for the CSO includes significant additional resources to provide for conducting the 2011 census of population. These resources will be reduced in 2012 and in subsequent years. The outputs of the law offices are also demand-driven. In addition to securing economies and increased operational efficiencies, the law offices have been exerting strong control in respect of expenditure on legal fees. This will be continued in the coming years.

With regard to the measures set out in the national recovery plan to enhance competitiveness, increase active labour market policy efforts and accelerate the rate of economic growth, my Department will support the implementation of these measures through the work of the relevant Cabinet committees and their associated senior officials groups.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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In respect of the proposed savings in the Department of the Taoiseach and its associated group of Votes, are reductions in staffing levels envisaged? The Taoiseach should outline the position in respect of both the Department and the other offices.

The annual report for 2009 for the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions was published today. The DPP stated in the report that his office was very stretched and that in the event of an increase in the workload of the office something must give. Will the Taoiseach assure Members that no prosecution will not be pursued or that no prosecution will be delayed on foot of any savings that are to be made in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions? If a Garda file or files are presented to the office relating to the investigations the Garda has under way in the banking sector, can the Taoiseach assure Members that there will be no delay in the pursuit of or dealing with such files?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the last matter raised by the Deputy, there has been close liaison between the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions and the investigating authorities and obviously they are a matter of major priority. It is in the public interest that they are dealt with as expeditiously as possible. Concern has been raised about the length of time it takes but there is also a necessity to ensure there is due process and that nothing is said or done that would compromise the prospective prosecution of any persons arising from those investigations. Taking all of that into account, there is no reason to believe that these matters will not be given the utmost priority.

In regard to the savings in the Department, the Government, as I said, has already reduced its overall staff numbers by 10% since January 2008 and will continue to reduce numbers, while maintaining services, by a further 2% below the employment control framework target set by the Department of Finance by the end of 2014. That is the reference point for that question.

Since January 2008, some 35 staff have been redeployed to other departments and we will continue to facilitate actively the reallocation of staff to the areas of greatest need in accordance with the redeployment arrangements set out in the Croke Park agreement. The total budget for the Department was reduced between 2008 and 2010 by 31%, including a reduction of 11% in the administration budget. The administration budget Estimate for 2011 has been reduced by 15% over the 2010 Revised Estimate. Further savings over the period of the plan will be achieved through continued efficiencies and procurement practices, greater use of technology and shared services, energy efficiency programmes, the use of central framework agreements and the close monitoring of all expenditure.

Regarding the Office of the Director of Public Prosecution, which was referred to by the Deputy, there is a pressing requirement for all public sector organisations to examine critically how they operate and seek to deliver greater efficiencies. Like other public service organisations, the DPP is subject to the decision of the Government to restrict recruitment and promotions. However, the office has taken steps to comply with the Government decision without adversely affecting front line prosecution services.

We will continue to work with officials from the Office of Director of Public Prosecutions and the Department of Finance to ensure the necessary resources continue to be available to the DPP to enable it to fully and effectively discharge its function.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I note there is an allocation of €6.7 million for the Moriarty tribunal for 2011, which is a slight reduction on what was provided in 2010. Why is the allocation almost as high in 2011 as it was for 2010 if, as we have been told, it has now completed its public hearings? When does the Taoiseach expect the tribunal to complete its work and present its report?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We are still working to the schedule which applied in the last correspondence we received from the judge. We have received no correspondence since then that would change the situation.

On the allocation within subhead D, the provision relates to the running costs of the tribunal in 2011 and the costs which are estimated to arise in 2011 in regard to the completion of the tribunal's work. It is expected to include reporting costs and some element of the award of legal costs. As it is not possible to assess definitively the amount of legal costs which may be awarded by the tribunal or the timing of these awards, provision of approximately €6.7 million has been included. However, this is an estimate only. The total spend in 2010 to the end of November was €2.545 million.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Did I hear the Taoiseach correctly when he said in the block of Votes relevant to his Department that the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions is included?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Yes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In view of the comments made by the DPP, Mr. Hamilton, in respect of the difficulties his office is experiencing, if further savings are to be made there in 2011 can the Taoiseach confirm they will not be at the expense of it being able to deliver the service of which the DPP has spoken in the past? Those services are necessary if we are to have fairness and transparency in the justice areas with which the DPP deals.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I said in response to the third issue raised by Deputy Gilmore when he was asking supplementary questions, we will work with the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, which is a public sector organisation. The issues that apply to other offices, which are having to make these changes and adapt to these circumstances, also apply to the DPP's office. The number of staff in the office's directing and solicitors divisions have remained relatively unchanged in the past two years. Most of the savings have been made in the administration division. This has allowed the office to achieve savings and efficiencies while preserving front line prosecution services to meet the needs of its workload. The Department of Finance recently sanctioned the temporary recruitment of up to four solicitors to cover for staff on maternity leave in 2011. It has also sanctioned the recruitment of three temporary solicitors to deal with files relating to the banking and financial sectors. This will enable the DPP to assign existing experienced staff to the banking files, while using the temporary appointments to fill posts in other areas.

These issues are arising all the time in the present circumstances. The changes in staff numbers in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions in recent years have taken place in the context of the solid staffing base that was put in place in the office in 2007. Following a review of staffing requirements at that time, the Minister for Finance approved 28 new permanent posts and one contract post for the office. Some 21 of those posts related to legal and professional grades, which was a reflection of the increase in the volume and complexity of the work being undertaken by the office. Officials in the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance are making an ongoing effort to work together to ensure the necessary resources are available.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Taoiseach for that response. The Director of Public Prosecutions made two important points. He said that if the current trend continues, "something will have to give". He also said he is considering extending to serious cases of sexual abuse the facility available to him when people look for a reason a prosecution was not pursued in serious cases. In his response, the Taoiseach outlined the number of staff who have been recruited in the legal and personnel sections of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions in recent years. Based on those figures, is the Taoiseach happy that something will not have to give? In other words, if there is an increase in correspondence or contact with the office about the service it provides, is the Taoiseach reasonably happy that the office will be able to meet that demand?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have outlined the context of the situation as things stand. Like any organisation, I am sure it would be helpful for this organisation if other staff were available. We have to work within the constraints that apply to us all. I recognise the importance of the independence of the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. We need to work in a realistic way to address certain issues. As the Deputy is aware, these matters arise on an ongoing basis. The office is working despite the reductions that have taken place, which have been primarily on the administrative side, as I have said. The nature of the work done by the office means that administrative people are important, just as the staff in the professional and other grades are important. Everyone has a job to do. The office will have to try to work within the constraints under which we are all having to operate without affecting its ability to do its job. I am sure it is doing a very good job in difficult circumstances. As I said in my opening reply:

The outputs of the law offices are also demand-driven. In addition to securing economies and increased operational efficiencies, the law offices have been exerting strong control in respect of expenditure on legal fees. This will be continued in the coming years.

There is increased work. There are substantial fees to be paid for that work. One has to ensure it is paid for at rates that can be afforded by the taxpayer.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question No. 5 relates to the elements of the Government's national recovery plan which come under the Department of the Taoiseach or agencies under it. Does the Taoiseach have any information in his brief on what those elements of the Government's national plan are in so far as they affect his Department or agencies under its control and the arrangements being made for those elements to be implemented?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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My Department has to play its part in achieving the overall expenditure reductions required by the National Recovery Plan 2011-14. I was making the point that a large portion of the budgets of the offices under the group of Votes for which I have responsibility are administrative in character and, quite properly, have been taking reductions. They are making a contribution as one might expect the Taoiseach's office to do in giving a leadership role in that respect. Whatever has been sought has been delivered on.

The delivery of front line services to the public will not be affected as a result of the introduction of the cost saving measures. An action plan is in place to achieve that and to use the redeployment mechanism that is available where there are critical service pressures. We have been able to contribute in that regard, with some 35 staff members from the Department of the Taoiseach being moved elsewhere where that was considered helpful. The Department also continues to do the job it is expected to do. There is a further 15% cut this year within the Department, so that is giving a lead as one would expect.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not know whether the Taoiseach has had the same opportunity as other Deputies in the interludes from this House at weekends to learn from constituents how they feel about the situation unfolding, particularly the first real outworking of the so-called national recovery plan, namely, the budget and the impact it is having already on the lives of ordinary people, along with all the other measure signalled from January to March, etc.

I can share with him, however, my experience of the anger, concern and fear, the emotions most in evidence among the people I have met since the House adjourned last Friday. For them, the so-called national recovery plan is, indeed, a national impoverishment plan so devastating is the effect it will have on their lives. As he has indicated on a number of occasions here that €14.5 billion has been taken out of the economy over the past two years, how does the Taoiseach rationalise that taking another €15 billion out of the real economy over the next few years will make a difference when the first €14.5 billion clearly has not impacted in any way in terms of turning the tide? How is it that by doubling that figure and taking another €15 billion out of the economy we are going to see a change, because none is evident? Unemployment remains at a very high level and emigration is growing - hence the impact on the live register - in addition to the bank deficit debacle and the range of other issues presenting at this time. None of this is being corrected, it seems, by any of the measures that have been taken so far. How does the so-called national recovery plan impact in relation to the programme for Government? What are the Taoiseach's views of the comments this morning on "Morning Ireland" by the Minister for Finance when he talked about silly post-election political programmes? In my view and that of many listeners, he was referring to the Fianna Fáil-Green Party programme for Government after the last election. Does the Taoiseach agree with the Minister that these were silly programmes?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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All of us interact with the public on an ongoing basis, regardless whether one is at home or travelling throughout the country. One of the big pluses is the degree of certainty it provides for people in terms of what is envisaged for the coming year. The uncertainty before the budget and some of the commentary made upon it beforehand spooked people as to what was involved. While it seeks a contribution from all sections of society, given the importance of putting our public finances back in order, it also provides us with the means for recovery, having stabilised the economy this year following a contraction of 7.5% the previous year. The budgetary strategy for 2010 came in on target, with expenditure broadly within target and revenues up €500 million on what was expected. We still have a deficit. In other words, the difference between what we spend and what we take in must be reduced.

The Deputy's suggestion, which is implicit in the premise of his question, that we can continue to implement budgets wherein the level of expenditure exceeds the level of revenue coming in is not possible in current circumstances in this or any other country. The false option which the Deputy may be indicating is not available at all. The recovery plan is predicated on reducing expenditure, increasing taxation and promoting growth. That is what we will continue to do, as provided for in the plan. On the suggestions put forward by the Deputy's party, I fundamentally disagree with them in terms of prospects for growth. The suggestion that 80% of the €15 billion could be made up from increased taxes would probably be the biggest jobs killer of all. I do not agree either with the Labour Party suggestion that 50% of that sum should be raised by way of taxes, with the other 50% being raised by way of cuts.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Labour Party recommended less tax cuts than the Government implemented.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Exactly. The Labour Party suggested more tax.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Government did more in relation to tax than we were recommending.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is not correct.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is correct.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have read the Labour Party documentation. I would have thought Deputy Gilmore had read the document presented by him.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach should read again what it says in regard to income tax.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will bring into the House tomorrow and read what it says into the record.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Bring it on.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is clear what the Labour Party's tax take is, which is €2.5 billion.

Photo of Seán SherlockSeán Sherlock (Cork East, Labour)
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The Taoiseach has misinterpreted it.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is obviously encouraged by the media commentary on his defence of the indefensible here last week when he employed an old talent he had buried for some time, namely, his usual bluster. While that may have given a bit of lift to Fianna Fail backbenchers, it has done absolutely nothing for the wider public or to assuage the real fears of Opposition voices in this House. Contrary to the Taoiseach's view that the question I posed implies "sit still and everything will be fine", nothing could be further from the truth. The Taoiseach has not answered any of the questions I put to him.

The Taoiseach referred to having read other parties documents. Without question, I am confident that I can stand over the potential impact of the stimulus package we have commended in our recommendations. The Government has not provided a stimulus package on job retention or creation. The national impoverishment plan which the Government is outworking and under which it introduced with some trumpeting last week the first budget------

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Ó Caoláin not to lose sight of the fact that this is Question Time.

3:00 am

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We are obviously going to disagree. The sad reality is that the Taoiseach has again demonstrated a closed mind to other ideas because they come with respective party political tags, which is most regrettable. I again ask the Taoiseach to reconsider the position he is taking because there is no evidence, despite what he has endeavoured to sell here this afternoon, that taking money out of the economy will arrest the decline and lead to recovery. It cannot and will not. I again ask the Taoiseach to respond to the reference by the Minister for Finance this morning on "Morning Ireland" to the programme for Government between Fianna Fáil and the Green Party as a silly post-election political programme.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That was not his position. He was speaking generally about the roles of programmes for Government over the past 15 to 20 years.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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There were all silly. Is that right?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should allow the Taoiseach to continue.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No. If the Deputy would like my answer, I can give him an answer.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is what the Taoiseach is saying now and that he was referring to them all.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not. If the Deputy wants me to answer the question-----

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I am listening to the Taoiseach.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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We are not in a kangaroo court where a preconceived decision is made.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I would hope not.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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So would I. I would love to see the Deputy trying to bring me into one. All programmes for government are subject to the budgetary circumstances. I refer him to every one of them, including the rainbow coalition programme and the Fianna Fáil-Labour Party programme. All commitments in every programme are subject to overall budgetary requirements because, otherwise, there is no reality to them and that is why those provisions are in place in every programme.

Second, the counterargument I am putting is the Deputy is saying the €15 billion should be left in and we should run another deficit of €18.8 billion next year.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Not at all.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy, therefore, is saying he would not take this amount out. If he will not take it out one way, what way will he take this out? Is it going to be tax?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is the one who said he had read our document-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to figure out the Deputy's position.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----and he has had it for several weeks.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It still does not make sense to me. That is why I am asking questions.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It makes sense.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If Sinn Féin is not taking €15 billion out in expenditure, is it taking it out in tax or is it taking it out at all? Will it be taken out of one bank and put in another? Is the party bringing it down somewhere else and putting it somewhere.?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Does Deputy Cowen want me to answer a Taoiseach's question?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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What does the Deputy want me to do with the deficit?

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Let us not have a breakdown of normal arrangements.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with the Taoiseach that I would make an eminently better job of it than he is and that he is not capable of answering the questions being asked.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am answering the questions but I am clearly upsetting the Deputy.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I would be very happy to take Taoiseach's questions with the Ceann Comhairle's permission.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Rather than putting the questions, I will answer them as well.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If the Taoiseach is lost - and clearly he is - I would be very happy to take up the position.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Do I not welcome the formation of that group?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The one thing the Taoiseach can be sure is he will not be in it. Do not worry.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is for sure. The Deputy should not worry about. I will not contaminate the Deputy's group with my presence.

If the Deputy is saying we should leave the €15 billion in, then one is talking about continuing with the deficits we have. It is clearly the case that there is no access to funds available to this country on that basis and, therefore, by July 2011, when the Deputy goes up to Monaghan for his weekend sojourn after being in the House - if he is still here after the next election - he will be have to explain to his constituents how Sinn Féin will get them their social welfare payments even though we have suddenly run out of money but he will be able to say to them "But do not worry, Sinn Féin has a plan". I would love to know what that plan will be.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The running out of money-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Sinn Féin was not short of funds before. It has very creative ways of finding money.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is so ridiculous.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not. The next way one closes it------

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Government parties have presided over the loss of countless billions of euro and they are the people who are going to strap the deficit with a debt for years and years to come.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Can we have the Taoiseach without interruption please?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Give us a break. The Taoiseach has no credibility

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy cannot take this because Sinn Féin does not have a credible alternative.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We certainly do

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If he is not taking €15 billion out in expenditure, he will have to take it out in taxation. We have, therefore,-----

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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This is about what the Government will do.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has suggested I have the wrong proposals. I have explained to him in the House over a number of weeks why I think ours have a better chance than his. He said, "No, we would not take it out" and then he said, "We would take it out". When I ask him how he would so, he is not prepared to say. The bottom line is in Sinn Féin's documentation there is an 80% adjustment through taxation and a 20% adjustment through expenditure.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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No, what the Taoiseach is missing out-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is what it says. I am not missing anything. That is the basic point and that is the biggest jobs killer of all.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We propose the investment of in excess of €7 billion in a stimulus package over three and a half years. The Taoiseach should think about that because it is the one thought he has not had and it is the one that could make a critical difference to job creation.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy is imparting information. He ought to ask questions.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The Taoiseach is reversing our roles.