Dáil debates

Tuesday, 9 November 2010

Ceisteanna - Questions.

Programme for Government

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the Agreed Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30246/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if it is intended to publish the promised progress report on the implementation of an Agreed Programme for Government and the Renewed Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32317/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the implementation to date of the Agreed Programme for Government and the Renewed Programme for Government, with particular reference to those areas for which his Department has direct responsibility; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32318/10]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach the progress made in the implementation of the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32335/10]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach the arrangements that are in place, if any, for the monitoring of the implementation of the Programme for Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32336/10]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 2 to 6, inclusive together.

The first anniversary of the renewed programme for Government occurred on 10 October 2010. The programme was agreed last year in the light of significantly changed economic circumstances which have affected everyone. The core focus of the renewed programme is to stimulate sustainable economic recovery and job creation. It sets out the agreed areas of focus for each individual Minister whose duty it is to ensure that those commitments within their particular portfolios are implemented.

As I have stated on many occasions, we all have to adapt to changed economic circumstances. The international environment, while showing signs of recovery, is still fragile. Our focus is to stabilise our finances. Furthermore, we need to increase the competitiveness of the economy such that when the economic recovery takes place, we are best positioned to take advantage of that recovery. The renewed programme for Government takes account of these realities and sets out mechanisms that will allow us to achieve these objectives. The implementation of the renewed programme is an ongoing process which takes account of developing circumstances including the availability of resources. A progress report detailing the programme's implementation will be prepared shortly.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Electoral (Amendment) Bill proposes to put in place legal mechanisms to restrict donations to political parties. The representative of the Green Party seated beside the Taoiseach said that it was promised that this Bill would be brought before the House this session. I note from the legislative agenda that the heads of the Bill have yet to be approved by the Government. Is it expected that the heads of such a Bill will be approved by the Government in this session?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, we hope that will be the case but what is being worked upon at the moment is a priority.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In respect of the Department of Education and Science, a matter to which Deputy Ó Caoláin referred and to which he may return, the Green Party stated that the junior partners in the coalition were determined to maintain support for primary education and to prevent cuts in school capitation. In its revised programme for Government, agreed just over a year ago, the Government committed itself to no further increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in primary and second level schools for the lifetime of the Government. It also stated that it would provide 500 teaching posts between primary and second level schools over the next three years, 200 to be provided immediately and 150 to be provided in each of the following years. Does this commitment still stand?

Can we take it that for the lifetime of this Government there will no further increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in primary and second level schools? Does the commitment in the programme for Government to provide 500 teaching posts between primary and second level schools over the next three years still stand? How many of the 200 teachers to be provided immediately have been appointed, have the 150 teachers to be provided for this year been appointed and will the teachers to be provided for the remaining two years of the lifetime of the Government be appointed?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be aware that I cannot anticipate outcomes of discussions that are ongoing at Cabinet other than to say that we are doing all we can to ensure that we seek to address the issues we have set out in the programme. All our programme commitments are on the basis of maintaining financial stability - that must be the overriding priority. As the Deputy will be aware, I am not in a position, nor should anyone be in a position, during the course of Cabinet discussions to anticipate the outcome of all these areas. The Deputy will be aware that they are all being looked at to see in what way we can deal with the adjustments that must be considered not only for 2011 but for beyond then. We are doing all we can to address these issues in that context.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Can I take it from what the Taoiseach has said that the solemn commitment in the programme for Government is no longer valid? If the Taoiseach says that at the Cabinet table there will be a stress on the priorities that were to be made here in the context of the programme for Government, there were two clear facts in that respect. One was that there was to be no further increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in primary and second level schools for the lifetime of this Government. It appears that commitment is now being abandoned, if I am to go by the Taoiseach's comment. Second, 500 teaching were to be provided, 200 immediately and a further 150 for each of the years of the lifetime of the Government. This means that the Green Party has now capitulated on breaking what was a solemn Government commitment. It means that in the light of current circumstances, to which the people of the country have been led by Fianna Fáil and the Green Party, the programme for Government is no longer valid in the context of the discussions now taking place in preparation for next year, or am I to assume that is incorrect and that the Taoiseach can tell me that whatever else happens, these two commitments are to be honoured?

I hear Members opposite talk about education being an investment in the future, which is true. I also hear them talk about how we will do this fairly for everybody and that all Departments are being looked at. A solemn commitment was given that there would be no increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in primary or second level schools and that 500 teaching positions would be provided, 200 immediately and 150 for each of the following years. If that is a front line service, will we see it protected?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy asked if he can assume that what I have been saying is incorrect. He can take it that most of the time what he says is incorrect. That is usually the problem when one tries to turn assertion into fact. It is never a good idea.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach's own facts have always stood up about turning the corner-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Absolutely, Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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------and how there would be walls of cash.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Turning the corner into the ditch.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputies, one speaker at a time.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Did Deputy Kenny read his party's policy document before he went on the radio last Sunday?

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The only time the country will turn a corner is when the Taoiseach turns into Áras an Uachtaráin.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Did he leave the costings at home or what? On the commitment given last year to have another 200 posts, we ensured this was done. In the context of budgets, when one is in a Government one is not in a position to discuss budgets or Estimates until everything is signed off. It is not correct for the Deputy to make the sort of points he is making or to make any assumptions in that regard.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is in the programme for Government.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I know what is in the programme for Government and I can quote the Deputy's programme for Government. Every programme for Government, if the Deputy were to read them-----

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I read the programme for Government and it states there will be no further increases in the pupil-teacher ratio.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy went on about this for about ten minutes.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Unlike the Taoiseach, I read the Lisbon treaty.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The difference is that I negotiated the treaty and probably saw ten drafts of it before the Deputy even heard of it.

Discussions are ongoing in relation to all of these matters to try to secure an outcome that meets with the requirements of the situation. All programmes for Government, including those signed by the Deputy's former leader - the Deputy was a member of a Government himself - have a requirement for financial stability. One cannot do things regardless of what are the economic circumstances. Obviously, we are doing all we can to ensure we can discuss these matters and come to an outcome that meets the requirements of the situation in the best way we possibly can. That is where things are at and the Deputy's assertions to the contrary and his suggestions of abandonment and so forth are incorrect.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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In that case, the matter is only under discussion.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach states that the programme for Government is subject to the economic situation. I will raise two matters that could not be argued to be subject to the economic situation. The first is the commitment in the programme for Government to establish an independent electoral commission which would address issues such as the Dáil electoral system, numbers of Deputies and so on. What has happened to this commitment and when are we likely to see the commission established?

I was not clear about the reply the Taoiseach gave Deputy Kenny in respect of the commitment in the programme for Government to introduce legislation to ban corporate donations to political parties. Will the Taoiseach be more specific about when the House will see this legislation? I understand there was a commitment that in line with the legislation, a political fund would be established to which businesses would contribute generally and which would be disbursed on a proportionate basis among political parties. What has happened to this commitment? Will a political fund be established before the general election?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the electoral commission, the Deputy's question should be directed at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. I am sure an update on the progress being made on the matter can be provided. I cannot deal with each individual commitment in front of me as I am dealing with matters generally.

The legislation to which the Deputy refers is at an advanced stage of preparation. Issues are being considered in respect of the matter which will be dealt with when it comes to Government. I understand it should be with us shortly but I cannot anticipate the outcome of that decision.

3:00 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I will ask the Taoiseach about some other matters in the programme for Government. On the commitment that the Government will not proceed with any new scheme of student contribution for third level education, does this mean tuition fees will not be re-introduced? How does this commitment square with the proposed increase in the student registration fee?

On the commitment that 127,000 jobs will be created in the green and smart economies over the next decade, how many of these jobs have been created to date?

When the carbon tax was introduced last year the Government gave a commitment that a special fuel allowance would be introduced to provide for low income families who are affected by the introduction of the carbon levy. I understand this was to have been introduced at the time the levy took effect, which was on 1 May 2010.

While it was not then introduced, its introduction was promised in October. When will this happen?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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On the green economy issue, approximately 250 companies in Ireland now export environmental products and services, as well as serving the home market. More than 6,000 jobs have been created in that area and I understand there has been a 6% increase in employment in that sector this year alone. It is a growing area that will grow further. The Government continues to work on the basis of the excellent green enterprise development group report that provided it with a series of recommendations on which to work to bring this about. To what did the first question asked by the Deputy relate?

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It related to student tuition fees.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will be aware that discussions are ongoing on these matters and as he is well aware, I cannot discuss these issues. The Government understands, notes and is aware of the commitments in the programme for Government but until final decisions are made in budgetary terms, I cannot give any indication in that regard. I should also point out that more than 5,000 jobs have been created in the retrofit industry in addition to the figures I already have outlined. These are new jobs that are coming through in this sector as a result of policies being pursued by the Government. On the question of dealing with fuel poverty, this also is a budgetary matter that will be dealt with in that context.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Deputy Kenny has stolen my lines. On the issue I raised mistakenly before this group of questions was reached, the programme for Government is clear in its commitment to avoid any increase in the pupil-teacher ratio in either primary or second level schools and uses the phrase, "for the lifetime of this Government". I again suggest to the Taoiseach that his unwillingness to affirm the commitment of his party and his colleagues in power to this commitment places the entire programme in question. This is a highly important and strong statement of intent and it deserves a better response than the one secured. I also make this point with regard to the standard capitation grant.

My final point on education is that the programme for Government states "Those with special needs will be safeguarded". Will the Taoiseach rule out any further reductions in special needs assistance and other supports to keep the commitment to, as the programme states, "continue to develop therapy services for children with special needs attending mainstream schools"? These are the areas about which Members are being asked on a continuous basis by people in the education sector. There are real concerns and worries in this regard that should be set aside by a clear and unequivocal answer from the Taoiseach in this Chamber this afternoon.

As for the health commitments in the programme for Government, it states that under equity of access, the new consultants' contract-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, to whom is this question directed?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is a question to the Taoiseach. It states that the delivery of the new consultants' contract would help to ensure equity of access. I recently raised with the Taoiseach the issue whereby it was necessary for some 296 consultants in the public hospital system to be written to by the clinical directors and the hospital managers in their respective locations with regard to their breaches of the contract regarding their responsibilities to the public and the public health system. Does the Taoiseach not accept this is a huge number of consultants who are in breach of that contract and that clearly, the commitment of the Government in the programme to equity of access cannot be realised when there is such a high incidence of a failure to uphold and to live up to the commitments given? This is a very serious matter and I ask the Taoiseach what further steps he proposes to take to ensure that consultants who have signed up to these contracts live up to the letter of same.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Going back to previous points, the economic basis for every programme for Government is set out in the programme itself. It is important to remind Deputies what that is. The review is based on the plan to correct the public finances, which the Government set out in the supplementary budget in April 2009. That budget outlined the path to reduce the deficit to 3% of GDP by the end of 2013. That was subsequently extended to 2014. During the course of this financial year we have seen reductions in growth forecasts internationally and these must be reflected in our domestic situation. We must also reflect the impact of the Greek crisis on Government borrowings for all governments, and certainly for ours. That is another matter that has to be taken into account.

The economic basis of the programme is one to which all the main parties have subscribed. If we are to reach the programme's target, even allowing for the extension of a further year, we must make certain decisions to bring our budgets back into line. What I am hearing from some Deputies today is that they want commitments on various aspects, regardless of the course of discussions which are ongoing. That is not something I should do or can do responsibly. No responsible Government, at this stage of its proceedings, can make that sort of arrangement.

All these matters are under consideration. When one considers that health, education and social welfare account for 70% of the total day-to-day spend one must take into account what adjustments will have to be made to deal with that. I make that general point. One cannot make any assumption based on it, other than that the discussions are ongoing.

Parties such as Fine Gael and Labour adhere to the target of reducing the deficit to 3% of GDP by 2014. They cannot ask me to implement a programme in full if the economic basis of the programme has been changing, and it has been changing. That is acknowledged by everyone who wants to live in the real world. The luxury of sitting high on the Opposition benches is fine for Deputy Ó Caoláin. In the meantime, no responsible Government can fail to take cognisance of the present economic situation.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I do not accept the argument that the reduction of the deficit to 3% by 2014 is a realistic prospect. Not only do I reject the timeframe; I reject the methodology. What has any of that to do with the fact that we have almost 300 consultants that we know of, and heaven knows how many more, who are not adhering to the terms of their contracts within the public health system? That cannot be left to clinical directors and hospital managers.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question would be more appropriately put to the Minister for Health and Children.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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She will not answer it.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Given the Government's commitment in the programme for Government to equity of access, I am asking the Taoiseach what further steps the Government will take to have this matter addressed.

Another element in the programme for Government referred to by Deputy Gilmore was the independent electoral commission. Among the tasks outlined in the programme for Government is to make recommendations on the feasibility of extending the franchise in presidential elections to the Irish abroad. I raised this issue with the Taoiseach on 13 October and he said there was no demand for it and that the case for it had not been put. However, it is in the programme for Government. The case has certainly been put. Last Thursday evening in London, I attended and addressed a meeting of representatives of a variety of social, cultural and other organisations from across the Irish community in London. There is a very strong demand for this issue to be addressed.

This is not a party politically divisive proposition. The extension of voting rights in presidential elections to the diaspora is something to which we can all sign up. Is it not within the Government's gift-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Perhaps the Deputy will pursue that with the line Minister.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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With respect, I am finishing the question. Is it not within the Government's gift, in line with the commitment in the programme for Government, to bring that about in advance of next year's presidential election?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The commitment relates to the establishment of that commission to consider that issue. That will be part of its remit when it completes its consideration. When that work is completed, it can be considered at that time.

Leaving that aside, I am glad the Deputy met people from the diaspora in London. They have praised the Government's provision for the diaspora, particularly in the United Kingdom in recent years. A very strong commitment was made by the Government in this area. The diaspora has been very happy with what the Government has been able to do, which has far exceeded anything that has been done before.

With regard to the Deputy's point on consultants, at the heart of the principle of accountability is the fact that if issues arise, management can bring people to task and there is a mechanism by which the issues can be reviewed and remedied. That is precisely what is at play here. The change in the consultant contract does improve access in the health service - there is no question or doubt about it - and it will continue to do so. Where an issue arises in respect of which one is answerable to management, there is a process is in place. It should not be a criticism of the system that this is the case because management is taking up its responsibilities in those areas. That is what accountability is about. It is not that everything is perfect. However, if circumstances are not as they should be or require investigation, there is a process in place to address them.

The Deputy does not accept that the deficit should be reduced to 3% by the end of 2014, nor does he accept the timetable or methodology. In this case, the logic of his position is simple in that he must explain to the people how he would fund the State beyond July of next year. If he does not have an answer in this regard, his policy means something other than what is suggested.

As the Deputy is aware, there is currently a gap of 35% between what we are spending and what we are earning. Next August, it will be the Sinn Féin policy, presumably, to cut entitlements by that amount. If fact, it will have to double the cut because we will be six months into the year at that stage. It is very easy to say one does not agree with this, that or the other, but one must consider the consequences of doing so.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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The time is nearly up.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would like to be as short in my reply as the Deputy is in his questions.

The fact of the matter is that if one does not take a responsible approach, as one is entitled to do, and one does not believe the aforesaid adjustments must be made, one must explain how the State will be funded beyond next July. If one cannot explain it, instead of spending €50 billion with €31 billion coming in, one will spend €31 billion next year with €31 billion coming in. If this were one's approach, one would then have to explain to the people why one must cut services, entitlements and everything else.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I ask Deputy Ó Caoláin to be very brief because I must allow Deputy Reilly to contribute.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I will respond very briefly because the Taoiseach's remarks warrant a response. In the first instance, with regard to the London event-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We are not going to have a debate. This is Question Time.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Will the Ceann Comhairle please allow me to respond to what the Taoiseach said? I am indicating to him, in regard to the wish of a growing number of people in the diaspora to participate in the presidential election, that this wish is not a reflection on the Government, Opposition or anyone else. I have already indicated it was not party-political, yet the Taoiseach responded as if the Government were under attack. That is nonsense and filler for his reply.

With regard to the Taoiseach's approach to 2014, Sinn Féin has spelt out its policy.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should conclude with a question.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It seems that, as with the Lisbon treaty, the Taoiseach has not read our pre-budget submission, although it is not only the first submission to be issued but also the only one. It outlines the alternative that exists to what the Taoiseach is proposing to do.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To fund the State.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Not only have we laid it out-----

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy does not have an answer to my question; that is his problem. His words are bluster.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I beg the Taoiseach's pardon.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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He has no answer to the question as to how he would fund the State beyond July?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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That is the Taoiseach's choice. We have indicated very-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We cannot have a debate at Question Time. There is no provision for it.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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If the Taoiseach does not take the time to read and study the alternatives-----

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find another way to pursue this matter.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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-----to the whole mess he has led us into.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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Let me refer to the Taoiseach's own document lest he believe I did not read the programme for Government, one paragraph of which refers to supporting best outcomes and further support for primary and preventive care. The latter would mean that the money would follow the patient. I welcome the fact that the Government is taking on board some of Fine Gael's FairCare policy.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Which one is that?

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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In view of the fact that he presides over a Government which informed the country that we would make money from the banking crisis and which then stated that said crisis would cost €4.5 billion - whereas the bill to date is €50 billion - the Taoiseach is in no place to ask questions with regard to costings. The costings are there.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Where?

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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What we are suggesting can be done for less than the 11.8% the Minister for Health and Children has indicated is being spent on health services.

Photo of Séamus KirkSéamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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A question please.

Photo of James ReillyJames Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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What is the Taoiseach's view with regard to the case of the member of the Government whose GP referred them for a scan and who was given a date for the procedure which is 13 months hence? That shows the level of equity within the health service for someone who attends as a public patient.