Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The Government's decision is to reduce the number of VECs from 33 to 16 in order to deal with issues of scale and having regard to the current and prospective requirements of the education sector. Consideration of such a reduction had begun earlier as part of an examination of options to reduce the overall number of agencies. Subsequently, the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes recommended a reduction in the number of VECs from 33 to 22 and estimated savings of €3 million.

I am satisfied that a saving of that order is a reasonable projection in the medium term. There may be some increase in this figure given that there will be 16 rather than 22 VECs. This figure largely represents recurrent savings. The more immediate savings will be achieved primarily through a reduction in overall staff numbers. Some further savings should come through the sale of existing VEC buildings.

The Deputy referred to the analysis that informed this decision. He will be aware that it is not the practice to publish the contents of memoranda and the analysis provided to Government in reaching decisions. However, I want to avail of this opportunity to give the House a clear understanding of the rationale and basis for the decision. A number of Government priorities informed this decision, of which achieving savings was but one. The decision is fully consistent with the Government's objective of reducing the overall number of agencies and transforming the delivery of public services. At the core of this restructuring is the need to address the current low scale and size of operations, in particular in VECs. For any Government seeking more efficient and effective ways of delivering public services the current scale and size of some of the existing VECs is untenable. Based on 2009 allocations, 20 of the 33 VECs had an overall budget less than €30m and 15 VECs are responsible for five or fewer schools. Again using 2009 data, excluding the City of Cork and Dún Laoghaire, where school activity is concentrated either heavily or exclusively on PLC provision, total ordinary second level enrolment was below 1,000 in nine of the VECs. Even allowing for some adult and further education activity it is difficult to justify their continued stand-alone existence.

The Government decision can put the sector on a new footing for service delivery into the future. VECs have served this country well. When these changes are implemented the sector will be even better positioned to serve the needs of future learners.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Minister of State for his reply. In principle, the Labour Party supports the idea of the rationalisation of VECs. We have all been living with the uneven nature of very large and substantially sophisticated VECs by virtue of their volume and the much smaller ones to which the Minister of State referred. The announcement was made on 12 October, just under one month ago. Legislation is promised in the New Year.

Has a working party been established in the Department? Is there a person whose sole task is to drive this project? When will he or she meet the CEOs of the VECs? When does the Minister of State think he will have a draft programme on the implementation of the Bill? Any organisation that is trying to deliver a service such as daily and adult education finds it difficult enough in these times and to have the uncertainty of its future hanging over its head does not motivate staff or create good productivity.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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I thank the Deputy for his support in principle for this measure. There is a timeframe of about 18 months to implement this decision. Discussions have taken place with various stakeholders including the Irish Vocational Education Association and the association of CEOs. An implementation group has been established in the Department to oversee this initiative and it is led by an assistant secretary in the Department of Education and Skills. I have clearly set out the rationale for the decision. I am pleased that the House in general supports this initiative. Legislation is promised in due course but in the meantime the work continues in order to implement the decision.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Can the integration and merger of existing VECs take place without legislation? There was a reference in the reply given by the Minister of State that he would achieve some savings through the selling off of VEC buildings. Surely with growing educational population at primary and secondary level we need every educational building which we currently possess.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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The work can continue on an administrative basis without legislation.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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They cannot come into existence unless the legislation is in place. There cannot be one CEO and one membership board.

Seán Haughey (Dublin North Central, Fianna Fail)
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No, ultimately legislation will be needed. The groundwork will be done in the meantime on an administrative basis. The position regarding buildings has to be worked out. It depends on local factors in each of the VECs, what is and is not needed and so forth. I can take the Deputy's view that we should retain educational buildings if there is a need for them but again these details have to be worked out.