Dáil debates

Tuesday, 19 October 2010

Ceisteanna - Questions

Official Engagements

2:30 pm

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the foreign visits he plans to undertake during the remainder of 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30233/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach when he will next meet with the President of the European Commission; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30234/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach to report on his recent contacts with other European Union Heads of Government; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30238/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach if he has received an agenda for the October meeting of the European Council; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30241/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 8: To ask the Taoiseach if he has received an agenda for the EU summit in October; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32312/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 9: To ask the Taoiseach the contacts he has had with other EU leaders since the June summit; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32313/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 10: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his participation in the European Council meeting in Brussels on 16 September 2010 [32505/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 11: To ask the Taoiseach his plans for official trips abroad during the remainder of 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32506/10]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 12: To ask the Taoiseach to report on his participation at the EU summit in Brussels on 16 September 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32887/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 13: To ask the Taoiseach when he plans to visit China; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34661/10]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 14: To ask the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his participation in the Asia-Europe summit in Brussels on 4 and 5 October 2010 [35867/10]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 15: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his participation in the Asia-Europe summit [36175/10]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 16: To ask the Taoiseach if he will report on his meeting with the Finnish Prime Minister; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37171/10]

3:00 am

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 to 16, inclusive, together.

During the remainder of 2010 I intend to travel to meetings of the European Council in Brussels on 28 and 29 October, and 16 and 17 December; and to the British-Irish Council Summit in the Isle of Man on 13 December. I hope to visit China early in 2011, subject to the timing being settled by the Department of Foreign Affairs, in consultation with the Chinese authorities.

I had extensive contact with other EU leaders at the meeting of the European Council in Brussels on 16 September and at the EU/ASEM summit on 4 and 5 October. In addition, I met the Prime Minister Mr. Cameron in Downing Street on 23 June, and the Prime Minister of Finland, Ms Kiviniemi here in Dublin on 7 October.

I was accompanied at the European Council meeting on 16 September by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Mícheal Martin, and the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Dick Roche. The meeting focused on maximising the benefits of the EU's strategic partnerships with other countries. The Council acknowledged that Europe faces a great many challenges at present, many of which demand a coordinated external response. In this, we need to make full use of the potential of the new arrangements under the Lisbon treaty. Particular focus was given to upcoming summits with key partners, especially those with China and India, and the Council agreed to return to the subject of our transatlantic relationship at its next meeting. The Council also had an early discussion on our approach to the G20 meeting that will take place in November.

The President of the European Council, Hermann Van Rompuy, briefed the Council on progress being made by the Task Force on Economic Governance, which he is chairing. The Council welcomed the considerable work that has been undertaken to date, including agreement on the so-called European semester. The Council also adopted Declarations on Pakistan and the Middle East Peace Process.

The eighth Asia-Europe meeting, ASEM 8, which took place in Brussels on 4 and 5 October, dealt with a wide range of issues of interest to both regions under the overall themes of global financial and economic governance, sustainable development, international co-operation on global and regional issues and the future of ASEM. I addressed the conference on the issue of disarmament and nuclear non-proliferation, recalling Ireland's strong association with the non-proliferation treaty, NPT, and calling for a renewed effort to ensure its full implementation.

In advance of the summit, I participated in a business forum in Brussels organised by Enterprise Ireland which focused on IT for health care, one of Ireland's fastest growing export sectors. I also took part in a breakfast meeting with the Asia-Europe Business Forum organised as part of the summit.

The summit provided an opportunity to meet on the margins with a number of Heads of Government of participating countries, including Premier Wen Jiaboa of China, Prime Minister Gillard of Australia, Prime Minister Bouasone of Laos and President Zapatero of Spain. I met Prime Minister Kiviniemi of Finland in Government Buildings on 7 October, It was her first visit to Dublin since she took office in June of this year. Our discussions focused on Ireland and Finland's shared interest in innovation as an engine for growth and jobs as well as economic and EU matters. Later that afternoon, the Prime Minister and I addressed a seminar at Dublin Castle on combining Irish and Finnish strengths in innovation.

I expect to see the President of the European Commission at the next meeting of the European Council on 28 and 29 October. The main items on the agenda on that occasion are economic policy, including consideration of the final report of the task force on economic governance, preparations for the G20 summit in November, preparations for the Cancun conference on climate change and relations with the US ahead of the EU-US summit.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Regarding the Taoiseach's meeting with the Finnish Prime Minister, has he taken note of the advances made in Finland because of its Government's intervention through investment in the training of teachers? It has had a beneficial impact on the quality of Finland's education system. Did the Taoiseach discuss this issue with the Finnish Prime Minister? If not, would he be willing to have officials from the Department of Education and Skills involve themselves in what has been a fundamental transformation for the better of the Finnish education system?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The Finnish Prime Minister was accompanied by the education Minister from Finland, who had separate meetings with the Tánaiste. Perhaps a question to her directly would elicit the information the Deputy requires. It was not discussed specifically.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In terms of the preparation of a four-year fiscal presentation, does the European Commission have any involvement with the Department of Finance and the Government, in light of the targets that have been agreed between the Government and the European Commission? Will he confirm whether Commission officials have been to Dublin or are in any way involved in the framework process?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

As the European Commission has made clear, the drawing up of the four-year plan is a matter for the Government. It is our own decision. As members of the euro area, in terms of the normal arrangements that are in place, the European Commission is kept fully informed of developments and overall thinking in Ireland. There is interaction with the European Commission as an institution and others within the European Central Bank and elsewhere regarding growth forecasts, trends, medium-term projections, etc. It would be important to point out that this work is being carried out by the Department of Finance but there is continuing discussion with the European Commission so that it understands precisely the thinking behind the work that is ongoing.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If Commission officials are discussing matters with officials from the Department of Finance and in view of the fact that the Government has made briefings available to the Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin parties, does the Taoiseach consider that it would be appropriate to allow the same Commission officials to meet Opposition parties to get their view on the perspectives being prepared for the next four years?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is important to point out that it is the Irish authorities who are formulating these proposals. The International Monetary Fund people, the EU Commission and all the various international bodies such as the OECD and others have their own views of how world growth projections are likely to go, what the issues are and the various economic models they construct in order to proceed. The Department of Finance takes into account or takes note of all these views and they feed into the dialogue that takes place at national authorities level. It is not a question of people elsewhere deciding on the outcome. These are matters for decision by us, using our best judgment based on the best advice and information, international commentary and documentation available on these kinds of issues. That would not be necessary. The dialogue has been used and all these issues are being taken into account. What one hears from the international authorities is the best estimate based on all the views they hear. That question and answer is available to the Deputy.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It would appear that the interaction between the Commission officials and the Department of Finance has coloured the attitude of the Government. It is a matter for this country to prepare its own plans. The Taoiseach stated that Commission officials reflect on world economic trends and so they do. It would be in the interests of Opposition parties to have available as full a spectrum of information and views as possible in order to reflect more accurately on the figures made available to them in briefings yesterday.

If there are officials from the Commission in the country does the Taoiseach consider it appropriate that finance spokespersons from the Opposition parties should meet with them in order to get their reflections on Ireland and broader European and world issues as the spokespersons prepare their plans?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That information is available by questioning the Department of Finance. It is not appropriate to have others substituting in the role Department of Finance officials play.

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I do not mean it in terms of substituting but as colouring it.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

They are the people devising our national policies. At a political level, perhaps, one might see if it were possible for the Commissioner concerned, for example, to come over and discuss issues in due course with the Opposition leaders. It might be of some help at that level but in terms of the ongoing technical exercise it is the Department of Finance, the Government in general and the national authorities which are engaged in that process and it would not help beyond that. They can deal with any queries the Opposition might have in that regard.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I follow Deputy Kenny's point on the role of Commission officials in the Department of Finance which the Taoiseach describes as a technical exercise. What is the intended outcome of that technical exercise? Is it intended there will be a report from those officials to the Commission? Will the Government have access to such a report and is it intended that it would be made available to the Opposition parties in the course of time when completed?

I refer to the wider batch of questions tabled, in particular with regard to the informal summit on 16 September which discussed the general economic situation in Europe. After that summit the Taoiseach was reported as having stated there was no discussion at the summit, formally or informally, of Ireland's economic situation. I was surprised because I would have thought there would be at least some reference to the situation at the summit meeting.

The Taoiseach stated he met the president of the European Central Bank on the margins of that meeting and had a discussion with him. Did he raise with the ECB president, Mr. Trichet, comments he made a few days before the summit in which he was reported to have said that eurozone members in breach of the region's rules on public finances might be excluded temporarily from Europe's political decision-making? These were comments which were made by Mr. Trichet a few days before the summit in which he is reported to have said that eurozone members in breach of the region's rules on public finances might be excluded temporarily from Europe's political decision making. I found that an extraordinary statement and I wonder whether the Taoiseach raised that matter with the ECB president when he met him.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

In answer to the Deputy's first question, I was making a point in reply to Deputy Kenny that, perhaps, it might be appropriate if senior officials, or a Commissioner even, might come to Dublin to discuss matters with Opposition leaders at a political level. That might be helpful. Contact with the Commission by national authorities relates to forecasting regarding the ongoing technical and economic exercise. I am not trying to categorise this initiative as a technical exercise per se, but rather making a distinction between discussions at the political level and the normal interaction between Departments of Finance and all member states as well as Directorates General, such as that of Commissioner Rehn.

In this particular case, we, and the Commission and the eurozone group, have indicated that a four-year plan would be helpful in these circumstances and we are preparing it on that basis. Clearly, we want to ensure that the basis of support for that is as broad as we can obtain. It has always been the case that the European Commissioner is kept informed. That is where this is at now.

Regarding the European Council, the Irish issue was not raised by anyone or on the agenda. It was not raised under "any other business" or anything else. The reason is that we had indicated we were preparing a four-year plan and proceeding with it. As the Deputy knows, there are talks with Finance Ministers as well at the eurozone group level where much of that detailed discussion goes on. It is not unusual, therefore, that it would not be raised at the Council meeting since this is a Government and Ireland is a country that is very anxious to discharge its obligations and provide the necessary detail to assist everyone to see that is the case.

Incidentally, I did not raise any issue with Mr. Trichet in that regard. As the Deputy knows, the Von Rompuy report is still ongoing. The final draft will be with us imminently and we are preparing for the next summit where it will be discussed. A great deal of discussion is taking place about a whole range of issues affecting different countries at the moment, and there are differences of opinion in that regard. The discussion with Mr. Trichet was after a dinner that evening at the wind up of the summit. My recollection is that Mr. Felipe Gonzáles, who was there as a guest, was speaking on behalf of a senior group that was working there in relation to the future governance of the Union. In any event, when it was over, I went to speak to Mr. Trichet and that detailed discussion was taking place.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Do I understand correctly from the Taoiseach's reply that the commitment to have a four-year budgetary plan had been agreed by Government with the Commission before the meeting on 16 September? The Taoiseach referred to it in the course of his reply.

I presume that the Taoiseach made a contribution to the meeting. If nobody else referred to the Irish economic situation, did he mention it in the course of his contribution and can he give the House a flavour of what he told the meeting?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I have not got the outcomes of the meetings in September before me. Now that the Deputy mentions it, I will have to check whether the proposal to prepare the four-year plan had been agreed at that stage. I was just making the point that the issue did not arise at the Council.

The only statement given by me in this regard was that Ireland was committed to its obligations under the Stability and Growth Pact and would be proceeding along those lines. It is important to point out that Ireland has been taking steps, since this issue first arose in the summer of 2008, to achieve stabilisation of the deficit and, more recently, to prepare a deficit reduction programme. The Deputy's point is a fair one and I will provide the answer for him.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Can the Taoiseach advise us on whether the Council, during the course of the meeting of 16 September, addressed the serious impact of the current economic situation on the lives of ordinary citizens, particularly that of rising unemployment across many member states? Was any consideration given to curbing the considerable powers of the international credit rating agencies and bond markets, which are now, by their actions and decisions, virtually dictating national policy to sitting governments of member states? That is how serious it is. Did the Taoiseach take note of the statement on 8 October by the rating agency Fitch that more repossessions and evictions were needed in Ireland - in its words, to help the performance of the banks? I do not need to remind the Taoiseach, who is as familiar with our history as I am-----

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A brief question, Deputy, please.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

-----that the last time an outside agency called for more evictions on this island, we had landlord rule under the Union Jack. Has the Taoiseach responded to that statement by Fitch? Would he join this Deputy in roundly rejecting its call for more evictions and repossessions?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am sorry; what was the first part of the Deputy's question?

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I asked whether the Council meeting of 16 September addressed the impact of the current economic situation on the lives of ordinary citizens, with a particular focus on the growing level of unemployment here and across the greater number of member states.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The special meeting was called by the President of the European Council to discuss specific issues. More meetings of the European Council are taking place as a result of the Lisbon treaty, but not all of these have the full agenda of a normal Council meeting, of which there were traditionally two per year - one in the summer and one in December - plus another in the spring to deal with the goals under the Lisbon agenda, as it was called at the time, of making the European economy more competitive. We are now trying to come up with strategic goals for the European economy, and a means of achieving them, between now and 2020. This is a far more limited set of objectives, perhaps, than the various performance indicators under the Lisbon agenda. At that time the meetings had become something of a box-ticking exercise rather than incorporating a strategic approach to improving the European economy generally. That is the lesson that was learned from that process.

The meeting of 16 September was about the strategic relationships we need to foster - for example, with China, India, Brazil and the United States. Mr. Van Rompuy also briefed the Council on the progress being made by the task force on economic governance, which he is chairing, including the changes being contemplated to improve oversight and surveillance by the euro group of the budget policies of member states.

The Deputy's second point relates to the influence of the markets. In the aftermath of the financial and economic crisis, sovereign debt is an issue that is now in play in a way that would not have been the case during the time of prolonged world economic growth since the 1990s. Due to the impact this has had on the infrastructure of the international financial system, all debt, including sovereign debt and the ability of sovereigns to repay their debt, is being taken into account through the cost of borrowing that states have to endure from those institutions that provide the money to fund deficits. This is happening due to the impact of the recession and the need to fund those deficits in a planned way over time, so that they can be reduced and we can get back to a budgetary balance.

This situation is affecting all countries in the western world at the moment.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Is there no way of curbing their power?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Allow the Taoiseach to finish. We have gone over time.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With respect to curbing their power, it is a question of the way to do that and the way to manage our own destiny. The way to effect economic control over our own country is to come forward with strategies and policies that show we are capable of funding those deficits, being able to repay our debt over time, and fostering growth in the economy. That is a difficult thing to achieve, but it can be done.

The purpose of our current discussions is to achieve the objective of consolidating the public finances, which is absolutely vital for confidence, job creation and investment in a predictable way, where a return on the investment can be confirmed, while at the same time allowing for the prospects of growth so that the economy can grow out of its current difficulties.