Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Question 63: To ask the Minister for the Environment; Heritage and Local Government if, in tandem with the publication of the Bill to establish a directly elected mayor for Dublin, he will indicate the estimated cost for the establishment and running of the office; the way he intends to meet this cost; if he will publish a regulatory impact assessment with the Bill; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37698/10]

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Local Government (Mayor and Regional Authority of Dublin) Bill 2010, which sets out the powers, functions and financing arrangements for the mayor and authority, was presented to Dáil Éireann on 15 October 2010. I published a regulatory impact assessment on my Department's website on that date.

A precise costing is not possible at this time, pending decisions which will be made in the coming months, in consultation with the Dublin local authorities, on the number and grades of staff employed, the facilities which will be required, the location of offices and other organisational details. However, I can state unequivocally that the costs of funding the Dublin mayor and supporting structures will be met entirely from within the local government sector. Opportunities to reduce costs are being taken. The new, strengthened regional authority provided for in the Bill will have 16 elected members; the authority it will replace has 30. There will be offsetting savings on functions currently performed by other bodies. The staffing structure will be relatively modest and will be drawn from the local government sector. Costs will be significantly outweighed by anticipated benefits in a range of key areas.

It should be noted that in 2010, the net budgeted revenue expenditure of local government fell by €381 million compared to 2009, a 7.6% decrease. Local government will continue to play its role in the Government's determined efforts to restore balance and sustainability in the public finances.

Alongside the introduction of the Dublin mayor, efficiency and saving measures will continue to be pursued across the local government sector arising from the report of the local government efficiency review group and related initiatives. In Dublin alone, these savings are estimated at €40 million per annum over time. In particular, it is my intention that the staffing complement, including senior manager numbers in Dublin City Council, will be reviewed in line with a recommendation made in the efficiency review, and this will be put in hand as soon as possible.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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From the Minister's statement it is clear that he has no notion about the cost of this office. He is disingenuous again today in saying he has no idea of the ballpark figure for this new office because the local authorities in Dublin have been briefed by the Department on the potential cost. I have access to documentation from Fingal County Council indicating that this office will cost €8 million over five years and that €1.6 million will need to be provided in its estimates based on the Minister's decision to proceed with this office immediately. This cost will ultimately need to be borne by the small business sector, the business sector generally and the consumers of services in those local authorities given that the Minister has just said it will need to be funded from existing resources.

While there is no difficulty with the principle of the Bill, I ask the Minister to postpone it until 2014 when the local government elections will be held and then let us have a directly elected mayor for Dublin in the context of overall reform of the existing structures. The Minister is satisfied to leave 133 councillors in four local authorities in place along with four county managers and an overarching regional authority with a directly elected mayor of Dublin at a cost of €8 million over five years. In these critical economic times for businesses and consumers, I ask the Minister to postpone this until 2014.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy has again quoted this document, as I have seen him do on numerous occasions, but it has no basis.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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So it is a figment.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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A document was presented to-----

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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A figment of our imagination.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister to reply.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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Thank you, a Leas Cheann-Comhairle. A document was presented to Fingal County Council elected members on proposals for a Dublin mayor in September 2010. The document contained factual inaccuracies, unfounded speculation and offered a hostile perspective-----

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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That is all wrong.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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-----on the introduction of a Dublin mayor. The document overstates anticipated expenditure considerably. For example, an estimate of not less than €1 million in consultants' fees to assist with a mayoral strategy is cited. There is no basis whatsoever to conclude that consultants would even be required to produce such a document. A figure of €1 million is misleading in the extreme. The Deputy should bear in mind - I hope he will never cite this document again - that Fingal County Council issued a press release stating:

Some personal conjecture regarding the cost of running the Mayoral Office and the wider implications of the proposal was inappropriately contained in this report. Any confusion or misunderstanding caused is regretted.

I hope that future debate on a mayoral office will be based on the facts and not any hostile or adversarial conjecture.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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These are the facts.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I will make it a little bit easier for the Minister. Will he accept there will be a cost to businesses and to consumers of services in Dublin arising from the enactment of this legislation? For the Minister's information, Fingal County Council has indicated that 35 to 40 staff will be needed, plus a ministerial salary or Minister of State salary that the Minister has projected, plus a home for the new officeholder and a regional authority to support it with the consequent staff that it would require.

To give an impression that such an office would pose no additional cost to the taxpayers or consumers of services or to the estimates of Dublin City Council or any other local authority in the Dublin area is off the mark. I ask the Minister again not to introduce another charge or tax on businesses and consumers of services in 2011 and to postpone the introduction of this legislation until 2014.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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If this was to include an extra charge on business, why in the name of God would the Dublin Chamber of Commerce be so supportive of this legislation?

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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It is wrong.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is my intention to appoint-----

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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It does not know the facts.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Minister to speak.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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-----a member of the Dublin Chamber of Commerce to the new efficiency group. I hope Deputy Hogan will support the changes which will mean that we will get greater efficiency in the Dublin-----

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am certainly not going to support the Minister's vanity project.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Please, Deputy.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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You are not supporting anything.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is all "no, no, no".

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister should address his remarks through the Chair and I will do my best to allow him to speak, if he does not directly refer his remarks to individual Members.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I believe the Leas-Cheann Comhairle will accept that this continual heckling-----

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will do my best to protect the Minister.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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-----is not conducive to any sort of constructive debate.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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The Minister should not be upsetting us.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is important that we get the facts. I am absolutely committed to lowering the charges for businesses and I believe that having a mayor for this region will improve the business environment for the city and make it far more competitive. I can assure the Deputy opposite that what will follow from this innovative initiative is that the city will be far more competitive and cost effective.