Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills if, in view of the fact that all five undergraduate primary teacher training colleges are owned and managed by the Catholic Church and the Church of Ireland and that such colleges are extensively funded by the Irish taxpayer and bearing in mind the provisions of Article 44 of the Constitution, she considers the compulsory requirement on students in these colleges to partake in religious studies, including faith formation for primary pupils as acceptable due the fact it denies the right of students to choose not to participate in such courses on the basis of their conscience; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [23887/10]

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct in his assumption that the B.Ed courses provided by all five colleges of education currently include modules on religious education. This reflects the fact that primary schools are overwhelmingly denominational and have traditionally played and continue to play a significant role in the faith formation of their pupils, and the colleges have prepared their students accordingly. As the Deputy will be aware, in relation to the Church of Ireland College of Education, a formal derogation under the provisions of the Employment Equality Act is sought from the House.

My officials have been in contact with the colleges to seek elaboration as to how the process works in practice, and the experiences the colleges may have had in dealing with any situation arising in this regard. The issue was also discussed at a recent biennial meeting between the colleges and my officials.

It may be of interest to Deputy to learn that all colleges have indicated that the issue of an exemption being sought by a student teacher in relation to the religious education module has not arisen in practice. The colleges have indicated that any such request from a student teacher would be looked at pragmatically were it to arise. In short, they have indicated that were such a situation to arise they would seek to ensure that it would not be an impediment to a student graduating as a teacher. In fact, one of the colleges has indicated that it is now in the process of proactively making provision to facilitate any student who expresses conscientious objections in the way the Deputy has described. The colleges are keen, irrespective of the legal position, to ensure they cater for the needs of all students.

On a related note, and as indicated previously in this House, my Department will seek the view of the Office of the Attorney General on the legal and constitutional aspects of this issue. In the meantime, there will be further engagement with the colleges with a view to advancing the matter. It is important to stress that the colleges are positively disposed to creating as inclusive an environment for students as possible and I support them in this regard.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I thank the Tánaiste and Minister for Education and Skills for her reply, but her response is somewhat inadequate as we approach the completion of first decade in the 21st century. This is a republic. Articles 42o and 44o of the Constitution provide for education. We have moved a long way from 1930. People are entitled to the right of conscience. The provision of education supported by the State is to be welcomed. However, I note from a reply to a question I got from the Minister on 1 June that the State is providing in the order of €50 million a year to the five teacher training colleges. Since the colleges have opened the door, will the Minister push it wide open and secure it, and request, by way of a formal letter, the colleges that are in receipt of €50 million of taxpayers' money to explicitly provide a freedom of conscience option? The Minister should request the colleges which are in receipt of €50 million of taxpayers' money to provide an explicit freedom of conscience option for their teacher training pupils so that if they wish to exercise it they do not have to seek permission but can simply avail of what is provided.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is important to say this issue has not arisen.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I am sorry but the Minister cannot say that.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I will call the Deputy again.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It has not arisen in the context of discussions that happened between my Department and the colleges where the specific question was asked. I support the colleges in having an inclusive environment. As the Deputy knows, the Department has been involved in some curricular development work with Educate Together and with the provision of new modules, all ongoing. As I indicated, we are going to seek advice from the Attorney General but while waiting for that advice we will work towards the formulation.

Not only do I support this issue but so do the colleges which are very positive about the way in which this matter was raised with them. I do not believe I should issue a diktat to them. It is a matter of working together to see whether certain procedures need to be set up to allow this to happen. As I indicated, one college is moving towards that at present.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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I did not ask the Minister to issue a diktat, to quote her own phrase. I asked her to act on the information volunteered to her and her Department, namely, that if a person requested the option it would be granted. I simply ask for that negative to be turned into a positive. In other words, a person does not have to ask but can avail of the option if he or she wants to because the provision is explicitly there. It is not an off-the-menu item which can be obtained if one asks for it. It should be an on-the-menu item for a student, who if he or she qualifies to be accepted into any of the five colleges, should be able to say, "By the way, I don't want to participate in the faith formation component of the curriculum offered here".

Will the Minister, in advance of the Attorney General's advice, concerning which I believe he will be consistent as shown in the Protestant grant component being removed on his constitutional advice, act so that the same advice will prevail? In order to prevent some difficulties of a much more substantial kind I respectfully suggest that the Minister invite the colleges to make explicit what they have told her is implicit in their handling of this issue.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is important to say that this has not arisen as a key issue for student teachers. We will be proactive. As I indicated, one of the colleges is proactive in this and we will move towards that. Neither side of the House is averse to this. I have no problem in supporting this and the colleges do not have a problem. It is a matter of working through how this can be set up simultaneously with the advice from the Attorney General. This matter will progress in tandem with the seeking of that advice. I do not want a situation whereby student teachers who have a conscientious objection would not be facilitated in any of the colleges.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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May I reply?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Very briefly. We are over time.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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The Minister cannot say the situation has not arisen. If one talks to the teachers' unions they will say privately it has arisen. The student teachers are scared to ask for it for fear of endangering their work opportunities.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There is another reality. More than 90% of schools in this country are run by denominations.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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We will get to that later.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is a fact of the situation. We had a very good debate in this House in which the majority of people, of both rural and urban ilk, were of the view that their local school of denominational education would continue to be important.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We will move on.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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That is a misrepresentation of what we said.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Student teachers are very pragmatic in the hope of getting a job.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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Hypocrisy becomes sanctioned.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is not hypocrisy. It is important to reiterate there is not a problem with that happening. In the interim we are proceeding with the methods I formulated.