Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs further to Parliamentary Question No. 130 of 30 March 2010, in which he stated that in the case of the education and social inclusion targets, further work is needed to be done to reach numerical rates and appropriate indicators respectively and the European Council will return to these at its June meeting, if he will make a statement detailing his relevant objectives going into the June meeting including whether he will push for the adoption of a 25% poverty reduction target for each Member State [20981/10]

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy is aware, the March 2010 European Council meeting agreed on the main elements of the new European strategy for jobs and growth, Europe 2020, including the key targets which will guide its implementation and arrangements for its improved monitoring. There were five European Union headline targets agreed by the European Council and they cover employment; research and development, including innovation; climate change and energy; education; and social inclusion, in particular poverty. This choice of targets is consistent with the desire to keep the strategy focused on key areas. It also brings out the potential for interlinkage, where progress under one target can contribute to reaching another. We believe that the strategy will provide an essential framework for action by the European Union and its member states to achieve higher levels of sustainable jobs and growth as economic recovery is secured.

The spring European Council provided for further work in a number of areas. This includes the development of national targets by each member state in dialogue with the Commission; the identification of bottlenecks constraining growth at national and European Union level; and the development by the Commission of its proposals for action at European Union level, notably through the flagship initiatives. This work is under way, as is the elaboration of numerical rates and appropriate indicators in the case of the education and social inclusion targets, respectively.

The Commission and Spanish Presidency have been meeting all member states and Ireland had an initial encounter on 29 April in Brussels. The purpose of that first, useful meeting was to begin the process of dialogue with the Commission concerning Ireland's national targets, as envisaged under the new strategy and as agreed at the spring European Council. It was also an opportunity to make an input on the matter of a social inclusion indicator where the Commission has acknowledged that its thinking is now evolving from its original suggestion. We favour the formulation of an appropriate target based on a poverty indicator which reflects the multidimensional nature of poverty, including material deprivation. Once agreed, the overall European Union poverty reduction target will be translated into national targets to take account of the differing starting points of member states.

Since 1997, the Government has adopted poverty targets as part of its national policy against poverty and for social inclusion. The Irish target is based on a composite poverty measure called consistent poverty. The measure identifies the percentage of the population which is both below 60% of median income, known as at risk of poverty, and experiencing material deprivation, that is, the enforced lack of two or more basic necessities. The Government target in the national action plan for social inclusion 2000 to 2016 is to further reduce consistent poverty to between 2% to 4% by 2012 and to eliminate it by 2016. Significant progress is being achieved in reaching these national targets.

Other European Union fora with expertise and a track record are now contributing to the work on the development of appropriate indicators for an European Union poverty target. These include the social protection committee where senior Irish officials from the relevant Government Departments are actively participating in the deliberations. The Employment, Social Policy, Health and Consumer Affairs Council, EPSCO, will consider this issue at its meeting on 7 and 8 June. The outcome from that discussion is expected to feed into the June European Council meeting.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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Does the Minister agree that poverty is a complex issue which employment by itself will not resolve for everyone? The assumption that poverty can be addressed ignores the reality of the working poor, those who have disabilities and dependancies and the like. Does the Minister agree that a specific target is necessary if real progress on poverty reduction is to be made? Does he agree that under the Lisbon strategy the European Union made a commitment to make a decisive impact on poverty by 2010 and failed to do so? In 2000, some 16% of the population of the European Union were at risk of poverty and by 2008, some 17% were at risk. Given the current climate, does the Minister agree that is an underestimation of those who are at risk of poverty?

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I agree that we need targets and I support the Europe 2020 strategy, in so far as it is endeavouring to fix targets along the five core areas. This strategy is better shaped and formulated because it has shortened the number of targets and areas. It has a much sharper focus that the previous Lisbon strategy. We welcome the education targets and the idea of targets for social inclusion. There are issues across member states as to the definition of "poverty", from consistent poverty to relative poverty and so forth. We have had these debates domestically.

I take the Deputy's point; it is complex and poverty is not just the absence of a job, although employment is one of the key weapons against poverty, about that there is no question. It was a factor in the last decade, in terms of Ireland reducing its rate of consistent poverty. Education and opportunity is very much linked to poverty. We support a target which sees the rate of early school leavers falling to under 10% by 2020 and at least 40% of the younger generation having a tertiary degree. Our national target is already in place under the national skills strategy. We are well placed to meet European Union headline targets in education.

In regard to the share of early school leavers, Ireland currently stands at 11.3% which represents a strong performance relative to the European Union average of 14.9%. We will go below that in order to reach the European Union target of not less than 10%.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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Now that we have the new Department of Social Protection, it is appropriate to make the comparison between the total spend of GDP. I understand the average in the European Union is approximately 23.5% of GDP; in Ireland it is approximately 18%. We are well below the average. During our best times-----

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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Well below which?

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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I can put it another way. At a time when we had the highest per capita income, during the highest rates of growth, we were second from bottom in regard to social protection. However one measures it, our budget expenditure on social protection is significantly less than the European average.

Taking the European Union anti-poverty network and the text of the treaty, my understanding was that there would be poverty-proofing of other policies, including the five new headlines the Minister mentioned. Can I take it there will be poverty-proofing across these five new indicators and that a significant attempt will be made to achieve the European average in social protection?

I refer to the education figures the Minister mentioned. I am afraid we would not allow them to cloud the fact that we have significant obstacles in our own back to education scheme for the unemployed.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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In terms of poverty reduction, during the past ten years there has been a very significant reduction in consistent poverty in Ireland and we have used our resources quite effectively to achieve that. The latest results from the EU survey on income and living conditions released in November 2009, which applied to 2008, indicated at that stage that the reductions in poverty were on track to achieve the 2012 and 2016 targets. It showed that the rate of consistent poverty in the population in 2008 was 4.2%, down from 5.1% in 2007. I accept that since 2008, we have experienced the fuller impact of the economic crash which would affect those figures but we made significant progress.

In terms of education, sometimes we do not acknowledge some of our achievements. In regard to tertiary education attainment for 30 to 34 year old people, Ireland compares very favourably to other EU member states at 46.1%. Ireland already exceeds the proposed target of 40%. The current EU average is 31%.

Michael D Higgins (Galway West, Labour)
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We have very highly educated unemployed people.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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I would not be that dismissive. We all know from research that education during the lifespan of an individual is the key to his or her progression in terms of employment attainment. Education is the one guarantee of exit from poverty and of a decent quality of life. It advances a society collectively.

When I was Minister for Education and Science in 1999, we worked out what percentage of the population we wanted to reach tertiary level. That was ten years ago. We set about dramatically increasing the number of places, equipment and teachers at third level. We must continue to do that to be competitive. I accept that poverty-proofing is something which will feed into the debate and so on.