Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Minister for Justice; Equality and Law Reform the number of times the Smithwick Tribunal has met in public session to date; and the cost of the tribunal to date [19718/10]

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Smithwick tribunal was established in 2005 by resolutions passed in both Houses of the Oireachtas to investigate suggestions that members of the Garda Síochána, or other employees of the State, colluded in the fatal shootings of RUC Chief Superintendent Harry Breen and RUC Superintendent Robert Buchanan on 20 March 1989. The resolution establishing the tribunal requires that it reports to the Clerk of the Dáil and makes such findings and recommendations as it sees fit on those matters. It is required to report on an interim basis not later than three months from the date of its establishment and within ten days of the commencement of oral hearings regarding the granting of representation before the tribunal, progress to date, likely duration and any other matters which it considers appropriate.

There is also a requirement for the tribunal to be completed in as economical a manner as possible and at the earliest possible date, consistent with a fair examination of the matters referred to it. The total cost of the tribunal to end February 2010, the latest date for which figures are available, is €6.3 million. The sole member of the tribunal is Mr. Justice Peter Smithwick. The tribunal is still in its investigative phase at present and has not, save for a sitting in which the chairman set out the terms of reference of the tribunal, held any public hearings to date. I understand public hearings are expected to take place later this year. The House will appreciate it is not open to me, as Minister, to seek to interfere in any way with the work of the tribunal. Nevertheless, I am confident the tribunal is cognisant of my desire, and that of the House, to fulfil its mandate as expeditiously as possible. In this context, it is to be hoped that the extensive investigative work undertaken by the tribunal will obviate the need for protracted public hearings.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I am conscious that the Minister has no wish to interfere with the workings of the tribunal and I accept that wholeheartedly. However, does he consider that the tribunal represents value for the taxpayer? In his reply, the Minister states some €6.3 million of taxpayers money has already been expended, but the tribunal has not sat for one day in public session. Does the Minister consider that five years of a tribunal without one public hearing and with expenditure of €6.3 million represents an expeditious route towards dealing with the investigation? How has it spent five years without one public hearing?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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As the Deputy is aware, the Minister is not answerable for the tribunal.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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Does the Minister consider it is good value for money? When does he expect this matter to be reported? Five years have already elapsed.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle stated, I am not responsible for this or to the House in respect of this matter.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The Minister is responsible for the payment of taxpayers' money.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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It is safe to say that officials in my Department have been in contact with Mr. Justice Smithwick in respect of the ongoing development of his investigation. It is also fair to say that he is endeavouring to carry out much of the work outside of public session to obviate the necessity for long public hearings. He does not have the full say in respect of how long the hearings will take place because if people are implicated in it, they must have the opportunity to query anything that goes on.

In respect of value for money, the fees paid to the inquiry's legal team were originally capped by virtue of the Government decision in 2004 to limit the level of fees payable to lawyers in such cases. These fees have been further reduced as a result of the Government's actions in 2009 to reduce public expenditure. Ultimately, we will not know whether the tribunal is value for money until it reports to the House. However, given the fact that the House gave Mr. Justice Smithwick his job, we can safely say he will report to the House on an interim basis after the ten days of public hearing to indicate how far he has progressed and at that stage we will know more. The Deputy was among those who set up the tribunal, it was not the Government. Mr. Justice Smithwick would have to be cognisant of the views expressed in the Oireachtas.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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I refer to two points which arise. What steps does the Minister intend to take to determine a timeframe for this issue? Was it envisaged in 2005, when the terms of reference were agreed, that after five years not one public hearing would have taken place? What timeframe is the Minister considering? Does the Minister agree with me that the slow pace of the tribunal has implications for persons whose character has been impugned, about whom allegations of a very serious nature have been made, about whom accusations and allegations of collusion have been made, and who are unable, because of the slow pace of the tribunal or because no one knows where this tribunal is going, to vindicate their good name? There is a denial of persons' constitutional rights as long as this tribunal continues at such a slow rate or pace and at such a high level of cost to the taxpayer.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am somewhat conscious of trampling on the work of the tribunal.

Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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That is the point but the question has been put and I must answer it as best I can, in the knowledge that the Government did not set up the tribunal. The tribunal is answerable to the House and if the House wishes to express anything about five years, it is a matter for the House if Members have a problem with it.

I understand from my officials, who have been in discussion with the tribunal team and the judge, that Mr. Justice Smithwick is very conscious of the costs and the time required. However, this is a painstaking operation involving co-operation with authorities across the Border and, possibly, across the water. Knowing Mr. Justice Smithwick, I have no doubt that he is operating in as expeditious a manner as possible and he must bear in mind the sentiments expressed by the Deputy.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It seems the Minister is not aware of any problem. There is no problem.