Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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I thank whoever chooses the matters to be discussed on the Adjournment for giving me the opportunity to speak this evening. I tabled this matter because over the weekend I remembered that some time ago the chief executive of the Labour Relations Commission, Kieran Mulvey - whom I know well; he is a very able person - said, to great fanfare, that he would meet all the heads of the various trade unions for private discussions. Since then there has been a long silence, and I have no way of finding out what happened except by tabling a matter on the Adjournment. I am glad of the opportunity to do so.

I knew Kieran Mulvey particularly well during the years when he was the general secretary of the ASTI. Later, when I became Minister for Education, I had extensive and regular interaction with the various trade unions. I always thought it was a good thing that in all my time as Minister I did not have a row with any of the teachers' trade unions. We managed to keep a friendship going, although we had tough meetings and there were times when things were extremely difficult. All in all, however, we managed.

Since then I have not seen much of Mr. Mulvey, although I know what he has been doing, and I thought his initiative to meet with the trade union heads was a remarkable one. Any country will benefit from decent social relationships between the Government and all interested parties. When there is good social cohesion, things go better. There are many people within the trade union movement - just as there are many in the Dáil and throughout the country - who have the best interests of the country at heart and wish to see matters moving along in a more tranquil way.

It does the country no good to be in a situation in which people are not getting the services they require. I crossed the street today and met a woman crying her eyes out outside the Passport Office because she could not get in. She told me her tale and explained the sensitive and difficult situation she was in. I thought it was so cruel that she could not go in and obtain what she legitimately sought, which was to update her passport. Equally, I had four calls this evening from people who could not access social welfare offices. It is incorrect to target those vulnerable people.

I am not faulting the trade unions. They have their job to do and we have ours. Our job is to govern the country, while theirs is to put across their points of view. However, I do not like the way in which vulnerable people - in particular, those who need services badly - are being denied. It is not affecting the political class because, by and large, we will get our business done, but it is affecting those who most need public services.

I hope that when the Minister of State with responsibility for labour affairs replies to me he will have something of substance to say. People are waiting to hear what is happening. I am aware that there may be back-channels of communication and that talks may be going on. I was particularly interested in the attitude of Mr. Mulvey and his wish to engage with the heads of the trade unions so that he could seek out common ground.

We all wish to see the country move forward and to see ourselves coming out of the Slough of Despond. We wish to see things brighten up for all of us - as consumers, as participants, as people living in this land - but we cannot do so unless there are harmonious relationships between all. I hope there will be a resumption of talks with the trade unions and that they, in turn, will see that it is not right to target those who are vulnerable and to leave the weakest unaided in difficult circumstances such as I heard about today.

I thank the Minister of State, Deputy Dara Calleary, for coming to the House. He occupies an office that I once occupied - the nicest office in town, if the truth be known. Is that right?

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I am not saying anything.

Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)
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He can take it or leave it, he is saying.

I hope the work of Kieran Mulvey and his comings and goings with the trade unions have yielded some fruit. I look forward to the Minister of State's reply.

Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)
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I thank Deputy O'Rourke for raising the matter and acknowledge her service as one of my predecessors. I will not comment on the office as I do not have that much experience in that regard.

As the Deputy stated, the chief executive of the Labour Relations Commission, Mr. Kieran Mulvey, spoke on RTE's "The Week in Politics" on 24 January about the availability of the Labour Relations Commission to facilitate and assist, in any appropriate way, a process of dialogue between the parties involved in the current industrial action in the public service. I should point out that there are ongoing contacts, as a matter of course, between public service management and unions, both in the context of formal industrial relations processes and regarding the conduct of the current industrial action.

Beyond these operational contacts, the Government believes it would be desirable that both public service unions and management would engage on the wider transformation agenda and the future development of public services and public service employment. However, everyone recognises that the context must be right. There must be a shared understanding of the parameters of any engagement and a willingness to explore what potential exists within those parameters.

Any industrial action is regrettable, particularly when it impacts on service delivery to the public. We all know of cases similar to that described by Deputy O'Rourke. Everything possible is being done to minimise any impact. Whereas the right of unions to take industrial action can be acknowledged, this must be tempered by the obligation to provide a service to the taxpayer, particularly in the areas referred to by Deputy O'Rourke.

As the Taoiseach stated in the House in recent days, the legitimate concerns of public servants will not be advanced in any way through industrial conflict. The Government welcomes recent comments from figures on the trade union side to the effect that an agreed solution to the current difficulties is both desirable and possible. There is a shared view on the sort of changes across the public service that would produce greater efficiency, better services for the public and - as important - more satisfactory working conditions for public servants. It is through engagement on that agenda, rather than industrial action, that the issues of concern to public servants can be properly addressed.

Public service transformation remains a key priority for this Government. Far from being hostile to the public service, the Government is committed to a public service worthy of the best traditions of those who have worked tirelessly to develop our State and its institutions over many decades. We believe that the public interest and the long-term interest of public servants coincide in creating a public service of which we can be proud, and equally, a public service which we can afford, both now and into the long term.

Both the Government, especially in its role as employer, and trade unions recognise that change is important, and both sides know what needs to be done in each sector to achieve change. It is important for the public service and the citizen that there is engagement on this reform agenda.

I am acutely aware of the difficulty that the reductions in public service pay are causing people on a personal basis but the Government had to take these decisions to stabilise the public finances. We did this not because we wanted to, but because we had to. They are simply a matter of budgetary necessity in these extraordinarily difficult times.

Ultimately, it is only through real and lasting change based on constant renewal, redesigning how we do our business and fully applying the potential of new technology and challenging accepted ways of working and organisational structures that those who work in the public service will be able to sustain their standard of living. The surest route to secure and stable income levels is to embrace change. There are well-established channels of communication with representatives of the trade unions in the public service and I emphasise that these can be used to signal a willingness to engage in dialogue and pursue a process of meaningful engagement on the challenges facing us.