Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Question 7: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when the White Paper on local government will be published; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9580/10]

Jim O'Keeffe (Cork South West, Fine Gael)
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Question 25: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when the proposed Government White Paper on local government reform will be published; when the proposed reforms will be implemented; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9385/10]

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Question 36: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government when he will bring forward the White Paper on local government which was promised for 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [9532/10]

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 25 and 36 together.

I published the Green Paper, Local Government, Stronger Local Democracy – Options for Change, in April 2008. This was followed by an extensive programme of national consultation for purposes of informing the preparation of the White Paper on local government. This will set out policy on a wide range of local government issues and will be of great importance to the future of the local government system and its stakeholders.

The environment has altered considerably since April 2008, not least due to the severe economic downturn. Work on the White Paper has also had to have regard to the report of the Commission on Taxation, the report of the special group on public service numbers and expenditure programmes and the renewed programme for Government.

The approach to the White Paper is now under consideration by the Government. A Cabinet committee has been established to finalise the major strategic issues to be included in the paper. While this may take some additional time, it is essential we get the White Paper right, that it is grounded in today's challenges, contains appropriate ambition and can be readily implemented.

However, I am continuing to take significant local government initiatives in the meantime. As announced in the budget, I established the local government efficiency review group in December to review the cost base, expenditure of and numbers employed in local authorities.

Last week, I established the Limerick local government committee to prepare a report into the most appropriate arrangements for local government for Limerick city and county.

Yesterday, I published the general scheme of the legislation to provide for a directly elected mayor for Dublin in 2010. This marks a first and significant step in implementing broader local government change.

I anticipate many of the policy decisions in the White Paper will require further legislation over the coming years.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It was so long ago that the Green Paper was launched I cannot remember when. Much fanfare was given to it at the time but much has changed since then. There was a consultation period leading up to the publication of the Green Paper, of which the Minister has made much mention.

Since then the bord snip nua report has been published which had significant findings on the future of local government. What consideration has the Minister given to McCarthy's recommendations when drafting the White Paper?

My concern about the bord snip nua report is that reduction is not necessarily reform, although it has become a mantra in the public discourse. Ultimately, real reform would be of better service to the citizen.

On what date, even provisionally, will the Minister launch the White Paper? What input has the bord snip report had on it? Will it be issued in a draft form or eventually when we do get to see it, will it be finalised?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Green Paper was published in April 2008. As I said in my reply, circumstances have changed considerably since then. We have had a major economic downturn. That is why we must take into account the report of the Commission onTaxation, the McCarthy report and the renewed programme for Government. The latter refers to regional government and fits in with some of the recommendations of the McCarthy report.

The McCarthy report proposed getting rid of many local authorities. I do not propose to take on board every recommendation of the report. I will examine them and the Government has always said it provides us with a menu. Last week, I established the Limerick local government committee which could provide us with a template. If one believes that strong regions derive from strong cities, then Limerick provides us with an opportunity to test local government models. If we can get it right in Limerick, it will serve as a template for other areas. Denis Brosnan, chair of the mid-west taskforce, has addressed the committee on this matter.

All these issues must be examined when considering the White Paper. A Government committee is doing so and it is going extremely well.

Another issue, of course, is the funding of local government and how this will change radically over the coming years. Once we have looked at the experience of Limerick, I would hope to be in a position to publish it before the summer, perhaps in the middle of May. I want to get it right and I want it to contain the appropriate level of ambition, so that it can be implemented and is practical. In terms of local government, town councils and boundaries of particular areas are matters replete with political sensitivities. That is why we must tread carefully. That is not to say we will not be making tough decisions. We must and we will be making tough decisions in the context of reform of local Government. One does not get reform without making tough decisions. It is not appropriate at this stage to publish this in draft form. I will talk to people about it but I hope to publish the entire document as quickly as possible.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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I welcome the indication that we will see a document between now and the summer. The reform of local government is ultimately about providing a better service to the citizens. At times, public representatives, managers and others seem to be the main beneficiaries of reform. From my examination of being in local government, one of the matters is the value of SPCs and the roles they play, which seems to vary from one local authority to another. In recent years we saw the abolition of the dual mandate and I believe a vacuum has been created. Given the lack of connectivity between national government and local government on strategic issues for regions, will the Minister consider allowing Members of the Parliament or Senators to have a direct involvement in SPCs? The role of the SPCs is to address the strategic planning of a region. It would make sense for Members of Parliament to sit on SPCs to create a level of local joined-up thinking and bring it to the national level.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is an interesting idea and I am happy to examine any ideas that Deputies may communicate to me. I am not going to discount the idea but we must examine its implications and see how it would work in effect. Deputy Lynch seems to suggest it will be a Senator.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It could be a Deputy or Senator but for strategic thinking it makes sense to have a parliamentarian as a member of SPCs.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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There is a divide between local authorities and the Oireachtas and very often local councillors do not appreciate Members getting involved. They ask why we do not just stick to what we are doing in Dublin instead of bothering the local councillors. I imagine members of the Labour Party would not appreciate what they see as interference.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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SPCs contain more than just local councillors; they contain directors of services in CIE and Bus Éireann and others. There is a strategic blend to an SPC and it makes sense for Members of Parliament to sit on the committees.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The difficulty in our multiseat constituencies is that the councillor is trying to oust the Deputy and might not appreciate the Deputy interfering.

Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)
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Is the Minister speaking from experience?

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The Green Party does not have that problem.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am happy to examine this idea.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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I fought the abolition of the dual mandate but it has happened. The policing committees have Oireachtas Members and councillors and it works quite well. I believe the move to get Deputies and Senators out of every body was a Civil Service initiative. I do not know the reason and I do not see the sense in it except the officials did not want Oireachtas Members on these bodies because they thought we would bring accountability and clout to it.

My proposal concerns Seanad reform, which is connected to local government. Perhaps the dual mandate should not have been abolished for Senators. Councillors serve in the German equivalent of the Upper House. If we want to revamp the Seanad perhaps we should allow Senators to be councillors and have a certain number of councillors in the Seanad. Why not make something of the link between the Seanad and local government? Most people would not have a problem with that.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It would be interesting to get an assessment of the effect of getting rid of the dual mandate. Many would argue we got rid of many experienced heads in local councils who could deal with managers, had an idea of where the local authority should move and took a national perspective. There are arguments for and against. There is a triple mandate in France, where politicians can be in the national Parliament as well as being mayors of cities and towns.

Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)
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The Minister could run for mayor of Dublin.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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That would be an interesting one.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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It would be an insurance policy.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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One could be mayor of Dublin and retain one's seat in this House. The current Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, took the decision in respect of these matters. I am not sure Deputy Tuffy can blame civil servants in this instance. The Minister took a view that did not gain acceptance in Fianna Fáil but prevailed with it. As a result of this decision, Deputies and Senators have very little or limited influence on local government activities.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Another of Deputy Dempsey's great ideas.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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If we had regional government there is the possibility of interaction between regional parliaments and the Seanad. This should be explored.