Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 38: To ask the Minister for Health and Children the recommendations she will propose in order to protect the rights of children; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [45534/09]

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 69: To ask the Minister for Health and Children the action she will take in response to the Murphy report on the Dublin Archdiocese; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [45533/09]

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will be responding in the context of the reports of the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation and the Oireachtas Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children.

The report of the Dublin Archdiocese Commission of Investigation documents the litany of abuses perpetrated by clergy operating under the aegis of the Dublin Archdiocese. The HSE is finalising its audits of other dioceses. The purpose of the audits is to ensure that the HSE is fully aware of all cases of clerical child sex abuse known to the church, including the whereabouts of any alleged perpetrators. Pending receipt of a report from the HSE on the results of these audits, the Government has reserved its position on the option of further diocesan investigations, along the lines of the Murphy commission.

While the commission's report does not include specific recommendations on the rights of children, it is important, in light of the report, to establish whether any further actions are required to strengthen child protection policies and practices generally.

The Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children, which was established in November 2007, has produced two interim reports to date. One deals with the exchange of so called soft information and the other with a proposal to give legal authority to create offences of absolute or strict liability in respect of sexual offences against, or in connection with, children. The joint committee is now concentrating on family law issues arising in respect of proposed changes to the Constitution dealing with, among other things, the rights of children. A draft final report is currently being considered by the committee and its deadline for reporting back to the Oireachtas is 16 December 2009. The report will be submitted to Government for its consideration. In the meantime, my office, in co-operation with the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, has started work on preparing heads of a Bill to deal with the issue of soft information.

A revised edition of the Children First guidelines will be published shortly by my office and will be promulgated throughout the public service. Standardised processes for dealing with cases of child welfare and protection will be introduced by the HSE, along with a national child care information system. This will help ensure that all information relating to an individual case is readily available to HSE professionals and that all contacts can be traced.

I am committed to making whatever changes are necessary in legislation, policy or practice to provide the best possible protection for children.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Has the Minister of State an idea when he might be ready to propose a referendum in regard to the rights of the child? The Murphy report contained a suggestion that the HSE may not have strong enough powers in regard to child sexual abuse outside of the family. Will the Minister of State comment on whether there is a need for further legislation in this regard?

The Ryan report suggested that there was a need for an extra 270 social workers specifically in the area of child protection. There is also information that more than 6,000 children at risk are not assigned to a social worker at present. In addition, the Adoption Bill will require more social workers. What action is the Government taking in regard to the shortage of social workers?

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

With regard to the referendum, the committee has until the end of next week to provide its consensus on wording to improve the position of children in the Constitution. A decision on a date of a referendum will follow consideration of that report by the Government.

HSE powers under section 3 of the Child Care Act are very clear in terms of abuse that might occur within a family. Both the Ferns report and the Murphy commission report raised a doubt as to whether the HSE had powers in terms of extra-familial abuse, as the Deputy stated. The Attorney General at the time of the Ferns report confirmed that the HSE powers under section 3 did contemplate extra-familial abuse. Nonetheless, as the Murphy commission has raised it again, we will again clarify the point with the Attorney General.

The question of the 270 social workers is a key part of the implementation plan. There already have been appointments in 2009 and I am confident we will be able to meet the target. The Deputy stated that 6,000 children do not have a social worker, which underlines the need, which is not disputed. Where a reference is made to the HSE, all children are triaged and dealt with in terms of priority.

The Adoption Bill contemplates the idea of accredited agencies that would carry out assessments in regard to suitability for adoption. Because that can be done, it should free up social workers who are currently occupied with the issue of assessments.

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

While I welcome the freer ability of social workers, I do not believe it goes far enough and we need more appointed.

My main point is simple and it concerns an issue broader than that of health. There are four Ministers across the Chamber. Surely they realise the absolute necessity that the Garda would investigate all dioceses to check for the situation that pertains in the Archdiocese of Dublin. We know well it is not limited to Dublin, nor was it limited to Ferns. All dioceses need to be investigated by the Garda. It is not a matter of focusing on the children, although, of course, that is important. The perpetrators who inflicted this pain on the victims have to be brought to book, and the victims must be given the right of redress and the right to confront their predators.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

First, the perpetrators are brought to book through the criminal justice system, not through commissions of inquiry. Commissions of inquiry are supposed to try to find out what went wrong in the past, who was responsible and-----

James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I asked for a Garda inquiry.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

A Garda inquiry concerns criminal justice. The Deputy asked whether all dioceses should be referred to the commission, if I am clear on his question. The Deputy must remember the Dublin commission looked at only a sample of cases, so it was not an effort to try to bring perpetrators to book. Rather, it was an exercise to try to find out what went wrong, who was responsible and what we can learn for the future.

There is a limit in regard to including all of the dioceses in the commission of inquiry because we have learned so much through both the Ryan and Murphy reports, and we will learn more from the Cloyne report. We have to remember there are also 140 congregations. It has taken us a year to examine Cloyne thus far, and it may take us a little longer. If we go through all of the dioceses and all of the congregations, for which some people are now calling, I doubt we will add much to our body of knowledge in regard to where we went wrong in the past. We have learned much. However, the Government, of course, reserves its position in regard to the HSE audits and what they will uncover about these dioceses.

Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am anxious to get more information on the social work issue. Will the Minister explain how many extra social workers have been appointed this year? At what stage does he expect to have appointed the extra 270 social workers that were recommended in the Ryan report?

On the issue raised by Deputy Reilly and the specific matter of possible criminal investigations, what is the Minister of State's role, given his responsibility for children? Does he have a responsibility in regard to that element or is this purely a matter for the DPP and the Garda?

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On the second issue, it is a matter for the DPP and the Garda and I do not have a role in that regard.

With regard to the social workers, while there have been 100 appointments this year, some of these are temporary staff who have been made permanent and some staff have taken retirement, so the net additional position is approximately 50. Therefore, there is a further number to be gained and it is my ambition to achieve that by the end of next year. However, resources obviously will be an issue and those matters will have to be resolved in terms of the ongoing Estimates and discussions with the Department of Finance.

Dan Neville (Limerick West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Members will recall the Monageer case, which involved a murder-suicide in Wexford in which two young children unfortunately died. One of the key recommendations of the Monageer report was that a full-time, 24-7 crisis intervention service would be available. It is available on a part-time basis at present. Will the Minister of State revisit the question of full-time service? His statement at the time was that the €12 million it would cost to save those lives was not available.

Barry Andrews (Dún Laoghaire, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to be clear that while an out-of-hours service was the key recommendation, the conclusion of the report was that it would not have saved those lives. We have to be clear about the context in which this recommendation was made. Nevertheless, as a result of that, in June 2009, the HSE with the Garda began operating a protocol for a place of safety under section 12 of the Child Care Act, whereby a child who in previous times would have spent a night in a Garda station would now be placed with a fostering service until social work services were available. This is working very well from the point of view of the Garda, the HSE and those children who have been referred to it.

It is interesting to note the volume of children coming into this place of safety service is very low, which makes us wonder whether a full-scale out-of-hours service is necessary. In any case, under the implementation plan, we have committed to doing two pilot areas, which will begin in 2010, in order to have an out-of-hours service outside of Dublin. Those recommendations will be acted on.