Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 1: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff who have applied for relocation under the decentralisation programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [30632/09]

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 2: To ask the Taoiseach the number of staff, broken down by grade, who have applied for relocation under the decentralisation programme; the number of such staff who have actually transferred; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [32529/09]

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.

Of the 169 civil servants currently serving in my Department, 28 have applied through the central applications facility, CAF, to relocate under the decentralisation programme.

The breakdown by grade is nine assistant principals, five higher executive officers, two administrative officers, four executive officers, one staff officer, six clerical officers and one from the services grades.

A total of 29 former members of staff have already been assigned to decentralised posts. There are no proposals to decentralise my Department or any of the bodies under its aegis. It is a matter for those Departments to which staff from my Department have decentralised to assign such staff to locations outside Dublin.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Were one to ask the people, they might have a view on decentralising the Taoiseach's Department. I refer to the 28 persons who have applied to the CAF for decentralisation from the Department of the Taoiseach. For what Departments and locations have they stated a preference? Have a number of the locations for which they have expressed a preference been stalled because of the general position in respect of decentralisation?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not have to hand information on what are their preferences. It is a matter for decentralised offices to use the central applications facility to decide what personnel will be asked to move to the locations. This will be in line with their preferences.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Arising from this, the Government provided €72 million in an envelope for decentralisation in 2009. What proportion of money has been spent on decentralisation? The Government also made a decision that, arising from the general economic situation, no further expenditure will take place on the acquisition of accommodation for decentralisation unless it was vetted by the decentralisation implementation group. What has happened in respect of the decision? Is information available from the decentralisation implementation group? There are 35 locations where a review is pending in 2011. What will happen to the sites in those cases? Many were acquired at exorbitant prices. They have devalued as a consequence of the general situation. Perhaps the Taoiseach has information on that.

Does the Taoiseach have information on the cost of maintaining empty buildings? The State owns quite a number of buildings in the decentralisation process that are lying empty. Given that we are a fortnight from the budget and given the projections for next year, is the decentralisation process still alive or is this just another sham, saying a review will take place in 2011 when the world and its mother knows that in many of these locations nothing will happen in respect of the announcements made many years ago by the then Minister, Charlie McCreevy?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Detailed questions in respect of the decentralisation programme are dealt with by the Department of Finance. I am dealing with my Department's position. From replies issued by the Department of Finance at the time and since then by the new incumbent, there has been a saving by Departments and the State in respect of the cost of relocating to sites as opposed to the disposal of sites in Dublin at very high prices.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach said the number of people who had applied for decentralisation from his Department was 28. That is exactly the number who had applied for decentralisation in March. I take it from his reply that nobody has been decentralised from his Department since March. When was the last occasion on which there was a successful applicant for decentralisation? In other words, when was someone last decentralised from the Department of the Taoiseach?

What is the position regarding the announcement in the October 2008 budget that, in effect, the decentralisation process has been put on hold? Does that mean no further applications are being accepted or considered within Departments or does it mean no further decentralisation is taking place?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I assume there has been no further decentralisation since this question was asked in March. The detail of the programme is dealt with by the Department of Finance. The decision made in the last budget stands. Those who are in the process of moving will continue to complete the move while others are kept under review until 2011.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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If someone had been accepted for decentralisation in March or last October and the person had started the process of moving, is this move to be completed? Since that announcement in October, are no applications now being entertained for decentralisation? Is that the current position?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The detail of where the programme is in every respect is best dealt with by the Department of Finance. That Department deals with the decentralisation programme on an ongoing basis. Advance parties in temporary offices that will be converted into permanent premises in the location they are in or locations in the same town will complete decentralisation in that way. In 2011, the Government will review decisions in respect of those agencies or Departments that had not progressed issues to the point where sites were allocated or buildings were being built.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Is decentralisation still a cornerstone of Government policy on delivering public services? A report in one of the newspapers at the weekend suggested the Government is considering reducing the number of local authorities to 22. The Taoiseach will recall that his party lost the local elections. I presume he will not do a Robert Mugabe on local government. How does he reconcile reducing the number of local authorities with a policy that has decentralisation as its approach to delivering local public services?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That relates to a review on programme expenditure, the McCarthy report. Recommendations have been made in respect of trying to rationalise local authorities and local authority provision. One reads much in the newspapers coming up to budget time, including speculation, argument and suggestions. Decisions are made on budget day and we should concentrate on these. How I reconcile any change that must take place, whether in local authority structures, the health services or any area of provision of public services, is that we need to modernise and use every possible means of rationalising services to best effect to have the most cost-effective system. The county system has served us over the years, with various educational committees such as town VECs, county VECs, regional bodies and a series of organisations. Some of these were built for programmes at the insistence of the European Union. All of this is being considered, some in the short term and some in the medium term.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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Can the Taoiseach indicate if the following rumour is correct, namely, that the policy of decentralisation will be abandoned at the budget and replaced by a policy of centralisation in the interest of economies of scale? The Taoiseach is essentially doing a U-turn on the policy he implemented during his term as Minister for Finance. Does the Taoiseach agree with the McCarthy report critique of his decentralisation programme and the waste of public money and lack of efficiency that resulted from it?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Neither assertion is true. I just made the point to Deputy Shatter's leader that there has been a saving in overall capital cost terms of relocating-----

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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In the context of the efficiency of Government.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, it is possible to have efficient Government outside the beltway. The Deputy may not be aware of that but it is possible.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is not able to have efficient Government inside or outside it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No-----

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is in government, where it is operating from. The level of inefficiency and incompetence is startling.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am trying to figure out the source of Deputy Shatter's rumour.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We now move to the next question.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Shatter is not from the decentralisation wing of Fine Gael. There are a few wings in the party on this issue.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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I am from the efficiency wing of the Fine Gael party. We would like to see competent Government and the Fianna Fáil Party on this side of the House, as would many people protesting outside this House.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Shatter, please.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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In what is known as an invitation to treat, I merely took up-----

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Did I hit a nerve? In every other respect, the Deputy is impressing his leader but not on that one.

Alan Shatter (Dublin South, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is running out of people to impress.