Catherine Byrne (Dublin South Central, Fine Gael)
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Question 48: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government his plans for septic tank upgrade works and regulation; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42801/09]

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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Question 88: To ask the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the steps he is taking to respond to the judgement of the European Court of Justice that Ireland had failed in its obligations under Directive 75/442/EEC in respect of waste waters discharged through septic tanks in the countryside; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [42965/09]

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 48 and 88 together.

The European Court of Justice recently ruled that Ireland had failed to fulfil its obligations under Articles 4 and 8 of the 1975 waste directive as regards domestic wastewaters disposed of in the countryside through septic tanks and other individual wastewater treatment systems. The renewed programme for Government includes a commitment to introduce a scheme for the licensing and inspection of septic tanks and other on-site wastewater treatment systems. My Department which has established a task force to consider the matter will develop proposals to give effect to this commitment and respond in full to the court judgment. The Department's initial assessment is that compliance with the ruling will require new legislation that will set standards for the performance of all individual wastewater treatment systems, provide for periodic inspection by a competent person, establish penalties for non-compliance and provide for corrective measures where a system is found to be defective. My Department is required to submit to the European Commission by the end of December formal proposals on how it proposes to achieve compliance with the judgment and to set out a timeframe for compliance.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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I am supportive of anything we can do to improve the quality of groundwater which is in a very poor state in many parts of the country. I draw the Minister's attention to an excellent report by the Joint Committee on the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. It arises from a number of presentations made by interested parties. Deputy Ciarán Lynch and I participated in the process and are supportive of the outcome which is long overdue. Will the Minister indicate how long it will be before the scheme is rolled out?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The task force has approximately two months to produce a set of proposals. It will comprise officials from my Department, the local authorities and the EPA. We must then go through a legislative process. Due to the pressure on us, rightly, because of the severity of the problem, I hope the legislation will be passed within a year. It is absolutely essential. According to the CSO, there are approximately 418,000 septic tanks. I believe that is a conservative estimate because it does not take into account many of the commercial premises and so forth that rely on septic tanks. Many of the septic tanks in place should never have been approved, as the soil conditions were completely wrong. There was a degree of irresponsibility on the part of planners at local authority level. The numbers involved are incredible but we must take this problem in hand. We must have a situation where there is no threat to our groundwater from badly functioning septic tanks.

Ciarán Lynch (Cork South Central, Labour)
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Deputy Hogan has referred to the work done by the joint committee on this issue. Both he and I were present for a visit to the committee by people involved in the septic tank industry who provided the Department with a report. One of the significant aspects of that report was the call for regulation. We had a bizarre situation where the industry was seeking regulation from the Government. How long has the report been on the Minister's desk? How long has the industry been seeking regulation? When will it be granted?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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There is nothing bizarre about the industry seeking regulation as it stands to benefit from such regulation. I have met industry representatives who have shown me the latest equipment, how it functions and how it can be installed quickly in an existing septic tank. There is much innovation in the industry, members of which are delighted that at long last there is a Minister interested in this subject because it has been a problem over successive Administrations. It did not just arise in the last two years or so but has been present for some time and people have failed to tackle it.

Phil Hogan (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fine Gael)
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Tell everyone that.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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It is a fact. Various Administrations have failed to tackle the problem, although we have known about it for some time. However, this Government will tackle it. There is a real commitment to doing so. I have given that commitment today and gave it previously in the renewed programme for Government. The report of the joint committee on the issue was good. However, it makes a few recommendations which will not be implemented, one of them being the provision of an incentive through a grant to upgrade tanks. Given the scale of the problem and the number of septic tanks involved, that is not possible.

Denis Naughten (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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The Minister has said formal proposals must be submitted to the Commission by the end of the year. Will they be submitted to the Commission, following which legislation will be brought before the House and a gun put to our heads because the Minister will say it has already been agreed with the Commission? Will it be another case of the cart being put before the horse or will we have a direct input into it?

What efforts are being made to inform people how they can properly utilise and maintain a septic tank? Basic information is not being provided for the public on the ongoing usage and maintenance of a septic tank. What investment is taking place to develop the technology to install new systems such as seed bacteria or small reed beds that can solve many of these problems cost effectively?

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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I am glad the Deputy has referred to that innovation. I have spoken to people such as Éamon de Buitléar and others who believe we do not need hard engineering solutions but can use the reed bed technologies which work very effectively. It is something we will have to explore to a greater extent, particularly in small connurbations where they can be very effective.

To refer to the Deputy's earlier point, I am not putting a gun to anybody's head. We have been put under pressure, rightly so, by this court judgment. We must produce legislation. Deputies will have adequate time when the legislation is being debated in the House to make their feelings known and make proposals. That is the proper way to proceed. If the Deputy has ideas, I will be more than happy to discuss them with him if he believes it would be helpful.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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This issue is frightening for my constituency of Cavan-Monaghan and other areas such as County Leitrim where soil types are difficult. I am glad to hear the Minister mention that developments such as reed bed technology can be extremely successful, as they have been beside my home. We must be given a commitment that nothing will be done that will make housing impossible in rural areas. Houses in my parish of Aghabog and similar places have been there for generations. The real problem is in areas such as Castleblayney where 700 houses have been built and connected with an existing sewage treatment plant that is incapable of dealing with it. It is going directly into the lake. That is also the situation in several other areas. We should not seek to concentrate on the small person and ignore the issues that we, as legislators, and the Government should deal with.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I think that was a question.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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The question that should be raised is how could a scheme of 700 houses obtain permission where there was no adequate sewage treatment facility. It is beyond me.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister is answering the question. The Deputy is supposed to pose questions.

John Gormley (Dublin South East, Green Party)
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The Deputy did not mention it but the judgment was very interesting with regard to the position in County Cavan. It specifically mentions the county in a good way because it points out that it is the only county that has by-laws relating to this issue. We must first put such by-laws in place. Notwithstanding this, it is clear that we must introduce specific legislation to deal with the issue. I hope there is a recognition on all sides of the House that it must be dealt with. Otherwise, regardless of who is in government, we will face very hefty fines.