Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 4, European Union Bill 2009 - Order for Second Stage and Second and Subsequent Stages; and No. 23, Defence (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill 2009 - Second Stage (resumed).

It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight and business shall be interrupted on the conclusion of Private Members' business, which shall be No. 67, motion re Government charges on businesses (resumed), which shall be taken for 90 minutes at 7 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 4, whichever is the later; Second and Subsequent Stages of No. 4 shall be taken today and the following arrangements shall apply: the proceedings on Second Stage shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 6 p.m. tonight; the proceedings on the Committee and Remaining Stages shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. tonight by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall include only those amendments set down or accepted by the Minister for Foreign Affairs; and the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 November 2009.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are three proposals to be put to the House today. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. tonight agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 4 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal that the Dáil on its rising today shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday 3 November 2009 agreed to?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I understand the Dáil meets tomorrow; or is it the select committee?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The select committee, yes.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Does the Dáil meet tomorrow?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Yes, in select committee.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Is the select committee to meet in the Chamber?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not a plenary session of the Dáil.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will there be a plenary session next Tuesday? The Order of Business states that "the Dáil, on its rising today, shall adjourn until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 November 2009."

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is Tuesday week.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am sorry. I understand.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Labour Party opposes this proposal. The Dáil should not adjourn today until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 November. The Dáil should meet in normal plenary session tomorrow, with an Order of Business, Questions and normal business. We should also be back here next Tuesday in plenary session, with all of the business we would normally have - Leaders' Questions, Taoiseach's Questions, Oral Questions to Ministers and Dáil business. The Dáil should sit a full normal week next week. For the past two or three years, it has been the practice that the Dáil sits normally the week after the October bank holiday. This should remain the case.

The Government is attempting to pretend that the Dáil is in session next week by having the select committee dealing with the NAMA legislation meet tomorrow and next week in the Chamber. The Labour Party had proposed that Committee Stage of that Bill should be dealt with on the floor of the House, but by the entire Dáil, as Committee Stages used to be dealt with on major legislation. What is happening in this case is that the NAMA Bill has been referred to the select committee and it is, effectively, hiring the Dáil Chamber for the business to be conducted tomorrow and next week. That is not an acceptable arrangement. We want the Dáil to meet in normal plenary session tomorrow and next week. I agree it should, if necessary, deal with the NAMA legislation by way of Committee Stage in the full House, but not the kind of arrangement put forward in this proposal.

Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein)
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I agree with Deputy Gilmore and oppose this proposal. The Dáil should meet tomorrow and all next week on Committee Stage in the Dáil as a whole to deal with the NAMA legislation. There was an opportunity for the Government to allow that and allow Members, who are interested in contributing on the NAMA debate, to contribute continuously. Given the scale of the proposal being put before us, all Members should be entitled to take part as a Committee of the Dáil, rather than in select committee as proposed, so that they can table amendments on Committee Stage, which they are not entitled to do in a select committee.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Will the Taoiseach say whether he has spoken to the President of the European Council in regard to the nomination of a Commissioner from Ireland to the European Commission, and could he indicate when he intends to make his choice known?

In respect of the proposal by the Minister for Transport to reduce the drink limit on driving from 80 to 50 milligrams of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood, I understand that this morning the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform said on his local radio station, LMFM, that the situation in the Republic would have to be compatible with that in Northern Ireland. Will the Taoiseach say whether this is true and if the proposed Bill will not be introduced by the Minister until there is compatibility between the two jurisdictions in this regard? In other words, is the Minister for Transport's Bill dependent on there being an equivalent alcohol limit in Northern Ireland?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As regards the commissionership issue, I refer to the June European Council's conclusions. In fact, direction has to be given by the Council for that process to begin, and that will probably be considered at the next meeting of the Council, at the end of this month. Obviously I am au fait with any developments taking place there.

On the road traffic legislation, the Minister has been seeking North-South co-ordination at ministerial council level. As we have seen with the mutual recognition of disqualifications and speeding, the need for co-ordination is very beneficial and important from a road safety point of view. The statistical data in Border areas show an improvement where co-ordination takes place in these areas of policy. Clearly, the legislation continues to be progressed in terms of its preparation and the Minister will obviously look to the co-ordinating mechanism that could be considered there also.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When can we expect the Minister to publish the details of what he intends to press through the Dáil? Will it take place in November? Does the Taoiseach know when he expects to introduce it here?

Deputy Shatter raised the matter of members of the Judiciary being exempt from the pensions levy and its consequences. That is governed under Article 35.5 of the Constitution as the Taoiseach is aware. In view of his remarks both this morning and yesterday in respect of public pay policy, is it the Government's view that in order to maintain respect for the Judiciary and yet not have its members exempt from public pay policy, it may be necessary to amend the Constitution in order to bring that compatibility into line?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To what did the first question relate?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When will the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, bring the Bill before the House?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I understand it, that is due this session. The publication of legislation has been promised for this session.

As has been the convention of this House, while we want to ensure that everyone participates in any effort we are making to show the wider public that we are all of the one mind in terms of our preparedness to reduce people's remuneration, it is important that we respect the constitutional provision regarding the independence of the Judiciary. It is a fundamental bulwark of our system.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I think that is given.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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If it is a given, let it be acknowledged as a given.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My question related to public pay policy though.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As the Deputy knows, decisions or initiatives have been taken by the Chief Justice in that regard, which are ongoing.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is fewer than half of them.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Against the wishes of the Opposition, the Government has now insisted that the Dáil will not be back here in full session until 3 November. This is a real trick and treat perpetrated by the Government against both the Opposition and the wider public. Since we will not be back here until 3 November, and that will leave only approximately a month until the budget, when does the Government intend to publish the pre-budget outlook? We no longer get Estimates in advance of the budget in the normal way. We now rely purely on the publication of the pre-budget outlook. When will that be published?

Yesterday, I asked about the publication of the report into the sexual abuse of children in the Dublin archdiocese. The Taoiseach responded to that, and I understand the Minister of State with responsibility for children is now going back to the High Court to seek clarification or get decisions on further matters relating to the report. How long does the Taoiseach expect that return to the High Court to delay the publication of the report on the Dublin archdiocese?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Regarding the workings of the House during the remainder of this week and next week, it will be concentrating on the very important legislation on the asset management agency, which needs to be enacted as a matter of urgency. While respecting that it has been referred technically to the select committee in terms of the voting arrangements, the full opportunity is being given to everyone in the House to debate and discuss it in plenary session as was the original request. I note that it is not the full concession to the request sought by the Opposition, but it is a fair compromise in all the circumstances.

Regarding the other matter referred to by the Deputy, as he said there is an issue that requires us to go back to the court. It is about ensuring that we do not do anything prejudicial in respect of any prosecution that may emerge in respect of some aspects of that report. That is required on the basis of legal advice. It is only a recent development, but it is about following that advice and ensuring that we publish the report as quickly as possible consistent with that consideration.

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I wish to revert to the point raised by Deputy Kenny in the context of public sector pay with particular reference to judicial pay and conditions, and the matter of the Constitution. I accept what the Taoiseach has said about the independence of the Judiciary being the bulwark of our democracy. However, matters must be advanced. It is important that there be a functioning relationship between the Executive - and indeed this Legislature - and the Judiciary. The long-promised legislation that may assist, the judicial council Bill, is not mentioned in the programme for Government. What is the position on the long-promised legislation setting up a judicial council having regard to the fact that, on 23 May last year, the Tánaiste when deputising for the Taoiseach indicated the legislation would be before the House before the end of 2008? I ask that the matter be progressed as there is concern at the need for such a judicial council to deal with a number of issues, which may well deal with the type of issue raised by Deputy Kenny.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that draft heads of the judicial council Bill have been prepared. Consultation is taking place seeking the views of the Judiciary in this matter. It is at that point at the moment. We await its views so that we can progress the legislation as quickly as possible. Obviously, I do not expect that it would be available for consideration by this House before next year.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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A few minutes ago the leader of the Labour Party, when asking about the pre-budget information, asked whether this was trick or treat time. It is for the children of the country, but for the Deputies it is like the old Irish Hallowe'en game of bobbing for apples. We are bobbing for information about the budget. The Taoiseach ignored Deputy Gilmore's question which was whether he or the Minister for Finance would make a pre-budget statement as happens in many other parliaments setting out in some detail the Government's proposal for the budget, which is due in little more than a month's time. I ask for a timeline and an indication of the likely length of the debate on the pre-budget situation, which is standard in most parliaments but has not been done here. As Deputy Gilmore said, we no longer even get Estimate information. We get everything just after the Minister for Finance stands up to speak on budget day.

There are two Bills in the Seanad dealing with management companies, the Property Services (Regulation) Bill and the Multi-Unit Developments Bill. I know the Senators are working hard on their amendments to these Bills. Does the Taoiseach know when they might finish their amendments and we might get these Bills in this House? The confusion for many apartment and house owners who are subject in their tens of thousands to management companies is considerable.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The matter the Deputy is raising is a matter for Seanad Éireann.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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It is also a matter for here.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I want to know when it will come in here. The Senators are working on their amendments but does the Taoiseach know when they are likely to finish?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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So does the Deputy.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The other House has to dispose of the legislation before it comes here. I call Deputy Crawford.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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One would think they would get on with it before it they are abolished. We are waiting for months. We went to the trouble of producing it and it is stuck in the Seanad for months now. It is a matter of urgency that it is introduced.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a matter for another day.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Can we send a message to the Seanad that we want it here?

Charles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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The message to the Seanad must have got lost.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Can I have an answer on the budget?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The question of when the Bill is returned from the Seanad is not something I can predict at present. However, I will ask my colleagues to see in what way it can be expedited.

Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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We appreciate it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is welcome. My apologies for not replying to Deputy Gilmore earlier in regard to the pre-budget outlook, which was an oversight on my part. I would expect we will have a debate on that upon our return after 3 November.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Crawford.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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In light of the fact the self-employed and farmers are finding it impossible to get any sort of social welfare, can the-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is this question related to promised legislation?

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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It is very much related to promised legislation. There is legislation which promised an increase in social welfare in the 2010 budget. When will that Social Welfare Bill come to the House?

Second, we have had much discussion in recent days on the limits for alcohol use. When will the sale of alcohol Bill, which would control some of the alcohol sales to young people, be brought to the House?

Finally, while I appreciate there was agreement to have a debate on agriculture tomorrow, that has now been cancelled. Will the Taoiseach guarantee this will be a matter of urgency when the Dáil resumes because farming is in crisis?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To take the last point, the question of the publication of the pre-budget outlook is an opportunity for a wider economic debate in the House which could of course include those, like the Deputy, who have a particular expertise and interest in the agricultural industry.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Agriculture is entitled to an independent debate.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is a matter for the Whips to consider. It was intended, as the Deputy knows, to proceed this week but that has been overtaken by events. Of course, the use of our committee system for these specialised debates is not excluded either.

The sale of alcohol Bill will be early next year. In the aftermath of the budget, whatever social welfare changes are envisaged will have to be enacted within the timelines that are provided for.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Will that be before Christmas?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would say it will be after Christmas.

Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two issues. The first concerns the customs Bill, which is to consolidate and modernise national legislation relating to the administration of the Customs Service. From the outset, both Customs and the Garda Síochána must be congratulated on recent seizures of drugs.

I wish to suggest one practical way in which Customs could be helped. In this country - I believe it would happen nowhere else - the two main ports have one scanner, which alternates between the two ports. I have raised this issue with the Minister of State with responsibility for drugs policy. In the interests of intercepting drugs coming into the country, and we are led to believe that only one in ten shipments is detected, I suggest the Government would provide a second scanner so that Customs and the Garda Síochána would not be chasing their tails. The importers and the drug lords know where the scanner is-----

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That is a question for the line Minister. It is an operational matter.

Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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This will have to come from the Taoiseach. I would hope he would give some indication that this could be done.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The question is whether it is necessary to introduce legislation to do it.

Tom Sheahan (Kerry South, Fine Gael)
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The customs Bill is to modernise the legislation. Let us modernise the force.

Second, this is the second anniversary of the plebiscite that was held by Kerry County Council in regard to the placename change of An Daingean to Dingle-Daingean Uí Chúis. Despite being two years on from that plebiscite, no legislation has been introduced to give it a legal standing and give back to the people of Dingle their placename, Dingle-Daingean Uí Chúis. When will that legislation come before the House?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Unfortunately, I do not believe any date is envisaged for either of the Bills the Deputy suggests. I will have to come back to him specifically in that regard.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two matters concerning legislation. First, when does the Government intend to bring the Seanad-introduced Adoption Bill into the House for a Second Reading? This Bill was introduced to the Seanad in January 2009 by the Leader of the House to consolidate the legislation. No bilateral agreement between Ireland and Vietnam can be entered into until this legislation goes through. I understand a high level deputation led by the Deputy Prime Minister of Vietnam will visit Ireland this week. Is it the intention of the Minister of State with responsibility for children to meet that deputation and to discuss this issue?

Second, the Animal Health and Welfare Bill is listed as being to consolidate and update existing legislation in the areas of animal health and welfare. Why has the purpose of the Bill changed? In any previous listing of the Bill, its purpose was listed as including: "to consolidate the responsibility for the welfare of all animals (including non-farm animals) within the Department". It now seems that this aspect has been dropped from the purpose of this legislation. It is important that it is put through. The Bill is still listed in section C of the legislative programme, with no date proposed. I urge the Government to bring it forward as soon as possible.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand that it is hoped Second Stage of the Adoption Bill would be taken some time in November. On the second matter, I would have to revert to the Deputy on whether any significance can be attached to the omission of words that were previously in the Bill. We do not have a date for that Bill. I will check the position and revert to the Deputy by correspondence.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Does the Taoiseach know if the Minister of State will meet the Vietnamese delegation?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I do not know. The Minister of State visited Vietnam recently. I am sure, if a senior political figure from that country is to visit here, it is unlikely that this matter would not be taken up.

Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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It is urgent.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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It is about nine months since the Government established a working party to consider Dáil reform. Will we ever see any proposals from Government on this matter? Is the Taoiseach interested at all in progressing the matter and when can we see action?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will understand I have some other preoccupations at present.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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Is that a "No", "Yes", "maybe" or "go to hell"?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would never be dismissive in that way.

David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)
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That is what we are getting here all the time from the Taoiseach. It is not good enough. We get the same answer all the time - too busy, not important.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is being worked on.

Ulick Burke (Galway East, Fine Gael)
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When will the situation between the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government with regard to the foreshore licences amendment be resolved? Several applications are with the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food but have been passed over to the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government. Nobody will take responsibility for the initial studies in regard to foreshore licences, in particular, aquaculture licences. This is a matter of urgency. Many people are employed in this sector, particularly in the shellfish sector, as in the case of Kinvara on Galway Bay. They have been told for the past three years that there are no personnel to carry out the initial studies by which this legislation can be brought to fruition.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand this matter will be published before Christmas.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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On 3 June, the Taoiseach met representatives of victims of residential abuse following the report of the Ryan commission. He gave an undertaking that they would be consulted and kept involved in any of the implementations of the recommendations which affected them. Notwithstanding that undertaking, given in the presence of the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe, will the Taoiseach confirm whether the latter has now moved unilaterally to establish a memorial committee and to appoint two individuals to that committee without any consultation whatsoever with representatives of the victims of abuse? Is the Taoiseach aware that an undertaking given by him has been unilaterally ignored by one of his Cabinet Ministers?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question is more suitable for the line Minister.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I understand it is the intention of the Minister that victims will be consulted about the nature of any memorial to be provided.

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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I take this final opportunity before Hallowe'en to remind the Taoiseach that this can be a frightening time of the year for people. This is particularly so this year, with 31 October falling on a Saturday. My constituency seemed to be worst hit last year in terms of the huge amount of damage to property and persons, with many gardaí being injured and various fires occurring that are still being treated as arson. There is a significant amount of negative anti-social activity associated with Hallowe'en and it is getting worse every year.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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Does the Deputy have a question on legislation?

Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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That was the prelude to my question. Will the Taoiseach initiate talks between the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and its counterpart in Northern Ireland in order to synchronise legislation on the licensing and sale of fireworks?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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That is a matter that could perhaps be dealt with in the context of a meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council. I will make the matter known to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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My question relates to the way in which we conduct our business in this House. Has the Taoiseach communicated to any of his Ministers the need for a greater degree of willingness to answer Members' questions relative to expenditure by their respective Departments, particularly in respect of subsidiary bodies?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy should put down parliamentary questions to individual Ministers. His question is a matter for the Ministers concerned.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is no other way of raising this issue. I raised it last week and the Taoiseach indicated it was the responsibility of Ministers to answer questions relative to their Departments. My question to him today is whether that includes questions relative to expenditure by subsidiary bodies of Departments.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must advise the Deputy that questions on this subject have been disallowed. He cannot raise this matter on the Order of Business and will have to find an alternative way of doing so, such as Private Members' time or via an Adjournment debate.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Who would respond to such an Adjournment debate? It would most likely be a Minister of State at a different Department.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I advise the Deputy to begin by raising the matter on the Adjournment in order to see what progress can be made.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I do not wish to make life difficult for the Ceann Comhairle at the beginning of his tenure. However, I must point out that the only person in this House with the power to do anything about the issue I have raised is the Taoiseach, but he is sitting there silently, hoping I will go away.

Micheál Martin (Cork South Central, Fianna Fail)
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There is no hope of that.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The entire Opposition may as well go away because we are irrelevant in this House if business continues to be conducted in the manner to which I referred. There is no point in criticising those outside the House who claim the Oireachtas does not function effectively. I am asking the Ceann Comhairle, as the Chairman and president of this House, what in God's name is happening? There are people outside the House asking why money is being put down the drain through the various subsidiaries of the various Departments. Ministers are responsible to this House for that expenditure. Such issues are part of the budgetary process.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy has raised an issue that is relevant to Dáil reform. There will have to be a formula put in place to deal with all of that. In the meantime, he may choose to raise the matter on the Adjournment or during Private Members' time.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is not a matter suitable for discussion on the Adjournment. It is a question of ministerial responsibility to the House.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must ask the Deputy to desist so that we can proceed to deal with the legislation we have ordered for today.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I will persist as long as my question remains unanswered. This is the only means by which I can hope to obtain an answer. This issue was never mentioned as part of the agenda of Dáil reform. It relates to a practice now established by Ministers whereby, on a creeping basis, they have resiled from their responsibility to answer Opposition questions in the House. I see the Minister of State, Deputy Dick Roche, is smiling. It is not a smiling matter.

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to find an alternative way of raising the issue. I ask for his co-operation on this point. He should raise the matter on the Adjournment or in Private Members' time, or he should speak to the Whips about the possibility of a debate on Dáil reform.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I ask the Ceann Comhairle not to insult my intelligence by advising me to raise this issue on the Adjournment. I am talking about the responsibilities of Ministers to this House. When will the Taoiseach recognise that?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We have to move on from this discussion.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Ceann Comhairle is the Chairman of this House. Through him I have put a simple question to the Taoiseach. Will he instruct his Ministers to desist from their policy of refusing to answer questions relative to expenditure through and by their respective Departments? Will the Taoiseach answer that question?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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I repeat that the Deputy should look at the potential of raising this issue on the Adjournment or during Private Members' time.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach is refusing to answer a question on procedures in the House. Does he have the courage to stand up and reply?

Séamus Kirk (Louth, Ceann Comhairle)
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We must move on. The Deputy may address this matter by another means, as I have advised him. I am willing to discuss the matter with him if he is prepared to deal with it via Private Members' time, an Adjournment debate or some other means.