Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Question 3: To ask the Minister for Defence the cost in the years 2002 to date in 2009 of the ministerial air transport service; the average cost of usage per Minister as charged; the full economic cost of the usage had it been charged; the average distance travelled by journey per Minister; the procedure by which usage is authorised; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [34971/09]

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The ministerial air transport service, MATS, provides the Government and the President with an independent, flexible and effective air transport service to assist in meeting national and international obligations. The service is more flexible than commercial air travel in that it is not bound to set routes, timetables or schedules. This flexibility can be very important in a wide variety of situations. For example, where EU meetings end up taking longer than originally expected, it is vital that departure times can be altered as required at short notice. This helps Ministers to fulfil to the greatest extent possible all of their duties at home and abroad.

The service also has the distinct advantage of being able to operate from military air bases with all the flexibility that this brings, namely,. Government jets can fly closer to many intended destinations using military, rather than civil airports, and this can lead to substantial savings in travel time. The service offers a degree of privacy for the conduct of official business during flights which is not available on commercial flights and allows Ministers to carry out their duties with the maximum of efficiency. The availability of the service for special tasks in times of crisis ensures independence of movement on critical occasions.

The ministerial air transport service is primarily provided by the Gulfstream IV and Learjet 45 aircraft, which were specifically acquired for that purpose. The Gulfstream IV was acquired in December 1991 and the Learjet entered service in January 2004 as a replacement for the Beechcraft Super King Air. The Beechcraft continued in use until January 2009 as a back-up aircraft for the MATS, in addition to its primary role as a pilot training aircraft. However, it is no longer available for Ministerial air transport or any other taskings.

Helicopters are used for ministerial air transport in situations where, for operational reasons, fixed wing aircraft may not be available, the point of destination may not be close to an airport and in circumstances where there is a requirement for greater flexibility than can be delivered by fixed wing aircraft. The CASA maritime patrol aircraft is occasionally tasked with MATS flights in exceptional circumstances and where the dedicated MATS aircraft are not available.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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I believe the Minister was coming to the more pertinent part of my question.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The reply is lengthy and the Minister has only two minutes to reply. If the Deputy asks a brief supplementary question the Minister may be able to provide him with a lengthy reply.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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I am sure the Minister will agree that this service should be based on need and relevance rather than convenience. Perhaps he will confirm the number of flying hours by Ministers in, for example, the past year or if that statistic is not available to him for 2008. What was the actual flying cost per hour?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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There is a direct cost and indirect cost involved.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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We are aware of that.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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Which cost is the Deputy seeking?

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The total cost.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The total cost includes the cost of depreciation of the aircraft, including wages, salaries and simply having the aircraft. One then adds to that figure the cost of fuel, maintenance, landing charges and so on and one gets the total cost. It costs a particular amount of keep the aircraft.

The average per hour, taking the total cost, depends on the type of aircraft used. I will go through the figures for the different aircraft.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister need only give the figures in respect of Gulfstream IV.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The costs in that regard are the highest by far. For 2009, the average total cost is €7,890 per hour and the average direct cost is €4,050 per hour.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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A trip to Brussels takes approximately two hours each way and the aircraft could be parked for a number of hours, costing up to €40,000, whereas a scheduled flight to Brussels for a person travelling business class costs approximately €2,000. Is an effort made at all times to consider the use of scheduled flights internally and externally so as to reduce the budget for this service? For how many flying hours did the Ministers use the jets and the helicopters in 2008 and last year? The Minister did not answer that.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The total to date in 2009 is 387.25 hours.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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Was that just on the jet?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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No, that was the total for everything.

Jimmy Deenihan (Kerry North, Fine Gael)
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What are the figures for within the country?

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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Am I answering a question or is this an exchange across the floor?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I am facilitating an exchange, if the Minister is happy with that. It is the best way to elucidate information. It would help, however, if one Deputy would sit down.

Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)
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The total to date in 2009 is 387.25 hours. I will issue a tabular statement to the Deputy that includes all years from 2002. We had only a few days to put the information together but he will get it all. I have answered dozens of questions and freedom of information requests on this and all the information the Deputy is seeking is already in the public domain. We will, however, make it available again.