Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Yesterday we saw the rather unedifying spectacle of this House being focused entirely on the job of one person, when the work of this House should have been focused on the lives and the careers of the approximately 500,000 people who are unemployed and the approximately 700 job losses announced in Aer Lingus following 250 in Intel. Other people are being let go because of a lack of credit being made available to them by banks, and their inability to get credit and have extended facilities made available to them. That is what the House should focus on.

There is no coherence on where the Government is heading in terms of job protection and job creation in so far as public finances are concerned. What is the Government's plan for the public finances and the fiscal strategy therein? In April of this year the Minister for Finance set out his additional measures to be delivered in 2010 and 2011. A total of €2.25 billion was to be delivered in cuts this year from current expenditure and capital expenditure according to the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan. Since then, on more than one occasion the Minister has said that the strategy of the Government is to have €4 billion in cuts in spending. That seems to be a clear departure from the April supplementary Budget Statement issued by the Minister on behalf of the Government.

What is the strategy? Have the Greens - who will meet this weekend - the former leader of the Progressive Democrats and the Government signed up to a new fiscal strategy in so far as public finances are concerned? Is it to be €2.25 billion in total spending cuts with a further €2.5 billion from taxation or is it €4 billion in spending cuts for this year? Which is it? Has everybody signed up to a new strategy that has been adopted by the Government? Will the Taoiseach respond on the Government's plan in terms of public finances from here on?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The mid-term fiscal consolidation plan has been approved by the EU Commission for some time. During the course of this year the Minister introduced a supplementary budget in April. He has indicated since then that he believes the bulk of the savings that will have to be achieved for 2010 should come on the expenditure side rather than on the taxation side. He made that position clear. That approach is generally recognised as being in the right direction. In preparation for the budget we are maintaining the mid-term fiscal consolidation proposals on the basis that a serious deferral of it over a longer period would increase the debt service repayments and the amount of existing resources going towards debt service interest, which is not in the interests of the country in the long term. The question of stabilising the public finances and working along the procedures and plans as outlined by the Minister for Finance remains the position of the Government, forms the central framework under which the Government is operating and that will continue to be the case.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The point is that the Minister for Finance said in his Budget Statement in April that we are to have total spending cuts of €2.25 billion. Since then he has repeatedly said it is now €4 billion in spending cuts. I would like to know which policy it is. He mentioned €2.5 billion in taxation and €2.25 billion in spending cuts in his April statement but since then he has said there will be cuts of €4 billion. Can I have a straight answer? Will there be €4 billion in total spending cuts without any taxation increases or will it be €2.25 billion?

During the Taoiseach's absence in America last week I asked the Tánaiste about the NAMA situation currently under discussion in the House but she did not have the full information available. It seems as if there is a growing body of opinion that the NAMA proposal as put forward by the Government will not work. In the light of comments made even yesterday by a Nobel laureate in economics that it would be criminal to pay over the odds for assets as per the Government's proposal, has the Government received a guarantee from Allied Irish Banks and Bank of Ireland that they will lend the money they will get under the NAMA proposal to business and small enterprise? Has any indication been given as to when that might happen or how much money will be available for lending to small and medium enterprises under the NAMA proposal? In the middle of the avalanche of calls yesterday I was contacted by nine small businesses that are strangled for money and cannot get it from the banks despite all of the talk. Will the Taoiseach answer those three questions in respect of NAMA; when he expects the banks can start lending, whether he has a guarantee that they will lend the money they receive, and what order of finance is envisaged?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the first matter, I have outlined to Deputy Kenny that the total level of adjustment envisaged by the Minister for Finance in respect of next year, based on his public comments, is €4 billion. In his Budget Statement he gave indicative figures relating to expenditure and taxation as to how that adjustment will be made. He has indicated on many occasions since then that he believes the bulk of the €4 billion saving should be more on the expenditure side than on the taxation side. He will meet with Commissioner Almunia on Friday to update him on recent developments and obviously will work with him on the best way of achieving stability in the public finances. I note from some comments he has made that it is Deputy Kenny's view, although it is hard to maintain a coherent approach with what he has to say on these matters,-----

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is hard to make head or tail of what is going on over there as well.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----that he would extend the period of time way beyond what is envisaged in the fiscal consolidation plan, which is for a five year period to the end of 2013. That is the Deputy's position, as I understand it at present. We will wait to hear what his party's spokesman on finance has to say about it.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When did I say that?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy said it in an interview.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When was that?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy said it in his first interview when he came back. I will get the Deputy the quote.

Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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Get your research unit on it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Is the Deputy suggesting he did not say it?

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach should check it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I have no problem backing it up.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Check it.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I will get it for the Deputy just to remind him. It is important that he know himself what he is talking about, whatever about anybody else knowing what he is talking about.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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It is like the Taoiseach runs the Government - make it up as you go along.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They can move into the Ceann Comhairle's office or the media unit.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Allow the Taoiseach to make his final reply.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Is Deputy Ring supporting Deputy Kenny this morning?

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I always support him.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to NAMA, I point out to Deputy Kenny once again that the means by which we deal with the problem of credit availability in the Irish economy is by ensuring that banks get access to funds either through their deposits or through access to wholesale money markets. What the NAMA legislation achieves is to identify the level of distressed assets. Without identifying that level of distressed assets, the ability to obtain credit from the financial system is not what it would otherwise be in the Irish banking system. To use that figure for the level of distressed assets as a means of leveraging further credit into the Irish banking system from the European Central Bank is the best means by which we can do that. There is plenty of support for that position, including among many in the IMF. The EU has guidelines relating to these matters. All of them are supportive of what the Government intends to do in this area.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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No, that is not true.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is not correct to say that there is not support for this proposal. In fact, the NTMA has been able to obtain long-term bond issues, which confirms there is greater confidence from international money markets-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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It is borrowing, but at a price.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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-----as a result of the announcement and decision to implement the NAMA legislation.

Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)
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Bank shares have gone up.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Those are the facts about the matter. The availability of credit is very much determined by the amount of credit that can be obtained by the system. The NAMA legislation will provide the means by which that will happen through the issuing of bonds and the ECB providing money at the rates that are currently being discussed.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Has the Government received a guarantee from the banks?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Those are the facts about NAMA-----

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There is no guarantee though.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It provides us with the means by which we can increase credit in the system. That is the situation.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I welcome the statement by the Ceann Comhairle last night that he intends to resign his office at 2.30 p.m. next Tuesday. I understand he has asked for some time to deal with staff, papers and other issues. It is not unreasonable that he be given that time. The Labour Party has a motion of no confidence in the Ceann Comhairle on the Order Paper. I intend to leave it on the Order Paper and if there is any attempt to take advantage of any changing political circumstances, I will insist that the motion be taken before any other business.

Has the Taoiseach given any consideration to how the House might deal with the election of a new Ceann Comhairle? This is a new set of circumstances; I do not believe there has been a case previously where it was necessary to elect a Ceann Comhairle in the mid-term of a Dáil. Given the necessity to have a Ceann Comhairle who will enjoy the confidence of all sides of the House, would the Taoiseach agree to have a meeting of the leaders of the political parties to discuss the election of a new Ceann Comhairle?

In the context of the necessity to reach agreement on the election of a new Ceann Comhairle, would the Taoiseach also consider the desirability of having agreement on the appointment of a new EU Commissioner? I raised this issue yesterday on the Order of Business. I understand contacts are under way between the Commission and the Government with regard to the nomination of a new EU Commissioner and that it is intended to progress this during the month of October. Will the Taoiseach agree that it would be desirable to consult about the appointment of a new EU Commissioner?

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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With regard to the announcement by the Ceann Comhairle of his decision to resign, I respect that decision. I respect the fact that it is being done in the interests of this House and the Office of Ceann Comhairle. In light of that decision it is less than seemly to haggle over the arrangements for his early resignation. It is not unreasonable that the Ceann Comhairle should have the opportunity to organise his affairs, including the implications for staff, and to prepare his statement. To impute other motives to his decision to resign next week is, as Deputy Rabbitte observed on the radio earlier this morning, merely cynical. The business of the House should be ordered for next week to provide for the statement to be made by the Ceann Comhairle and the election of a new Ceann Comhairle following his resignation.

Following my parliamentary party meeting discussions involving the Whips and the Ceann Comhairle took place. As would be my practice, I kept the leader of the Green Party advised of developments in those discussions over the course of yesterday evening. The situation was clarified by the Ceann Comhairle's decision to announce his intention to resign next week. That was the course of action he took based on contacts with the Whips and I believe it was the right thing to do. We should allow that to proceed so the dignity of this House and the dignity of the position can be respected and the incumbent is respected in respect of the decision he has reached. It is only fair and right. Perhaps that might be a better way of proceeding given some of the rather unedifying things we have been seeing and hearing in recent times. That is my strong view on the matter.

I believe that answers the first part of the Deputy's question. On the other matter, I hope everybody understands and accepts that the prerogatives of Government apply to this Government as they did with previous Administrations. The filling of that position will receive careful consideration. I told Deputies yesterday that if they have suggestions to make on a private basis, I will consider them. However, the prerogatives of the Government in this matter should be respected in this instance.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not disagree with the Taoiseach about the manner in which the resignation of the Ceann Comhairle should proceed. I have already said it is not unreasonable that he be given the time he has sought. My question was in respect of the arrangements for the election of a new Ceann Comhairle. I do not agree that it is the prerogative of the Government; it is a matter for the House to elect a new-----

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I was talking about the EU Commissioner.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I will come to that. I believe there should be agreement in the House on the election of a new Ceann Comhairle. That is why I suggested that there should be a meeting or a discussion among the party leaders about it. I put that suggestion to the Taoiseach again.

In respect of the appointment of the EU Commissioner, I do not accept that this should be an office that is in the gift of the Government. We have had two referenda on the Lisbon treaty and we agreed it was necessary to ratify the treaty in the country's interest. The right to have a Commissioner appointed was secured before the second referendum took place. The holder of the Commissioner post should be seen as a representative of the country rather than the parties in government. There should, therefore, be agreement across the House on who should be appointed and there should certainly be consultation on the matter.

The Taoiseach should not proceed with the appointment of a new Commissioner on the basis that it is in the Government's gift and the Commissioner is a Government appointee. Last Friday's decision was made by the people and the Government should respond to that. A great deal of political generosity was shown by Fine Gael and the Labour Party in respect of support for the treaty and by the people who went to the polls last Friday and voted to ratify the treaty and continue our position in and strong link with the European Union, notwithstanding their dislike of the Government. Now that the referendum is over, it is wrong of the Taoiseach to state that the appointment of Commissioner is the prerogative of the Government. There should be consultation on the appointment of the Commissioner and the appropriate person should be appointed. I put it to the Taoiseach again that he should agree to have such consultation.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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To return to the point Deputy Gilmore has again made, I did not suggest that the Commissioner would be appointed as a representative of the Government. The Commissioner will be a representative of the country. With respect, the suggestion that if the person to emerge were a member of my party or the Government or a supporter of the Government, it would in some way disqualify him or her or make him or her less qualified than some other way of doing it is not fair or just or a proper way to approach the issue.

Deputy Gilmore first suggested that we make an appointment by agreement. His second proposal is that it should be done on the basis of consultation. I have indicated to him that I am open to hear any views he has on the matter. That is a question of consultation. The question of agreement would suggest that the prerogative of Government in some way required the Deputy's agreement and consent. This was not afforded when the Labour Party was in government or by any other Government.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is splitting hairs.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I am not. This is an important point. I indicated to the Deputy yesterday and again today, in a spirit of generosity, that if there were prospective candidates who should receive the consideration of the Government in respect of the issue, I am open to hear from the Deputy on the matter. That is a fair and honest assessment of the situation and one that is consistent with what I stated yesterday.

I would prefer if what I have to say were not regarded as less than generous compared with what Deputy Gilmore has to say. That is a fair and honest appraisal of the position in respect of the Government's responsibilities in this matter. They are no different from Governments' responsibilities on previous occasions. I do not recall a consultation process being offered to Fianna Fáil when it was in opposition.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is hard to recall.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It is certainly hard to recall when one is in government, which is fair enough as it is not required. However, in an effort-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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We agreed to the appointment of Padraig Flynn.

Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy will remember that the Labour Party, which was in government at that time - the Deputy was in a different party at that time - was agreeable to that appointment. It is hard to catch up with where everyone was at the time. Things improve as we go along.

I have given a fair indication to the Deputy that if he has an interest in this matter and if he forwards names of prospective candidates for consideration by the Government, I will certainly consider them. However, to suggest that I require his agreement in respect of a nominee is outside the prerogative of the Opposition. I am anxious to accommodate in whatever way I can, consistent with a consultation process, although not a process of ultimate agreement with the Deputy.

On the Deputy's question on the position of Ceann Comhairle, he will have noted from past elections to the position that various parties put forward candidates and we ended up having a vote. I would regard it as preferable to obtain a unanimous decision on this matter at this time. Again, I am prepared to listen to what Opposition leaders have to say about the matter. Informal consultation can take place in the next day or two to see what prospective candidates emerge. This needs to be done in a way that upholds the dignity of the House.