Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste is the Minister in charge of Foras Áiseanna Saothar, or FÁS. Any Deputy in the House can point to areas in the country, the city, the town and other places where FÁS has given very valuable assistance in the development of community facilities. That must be recognised. It is more than a year since I, along with Deputy Varadkar, raised questions in the House about activities within the FÁS organisation at senior level. Last Sunday week, the chairman of FÁS announced on RTE that the entire board would resign. When I raised this matter first the Taoiseach defended the actions of the former chief executive and, as Minister, the Tánaiste said that all matters which were in the public domain were in the past.

We hear a great deal about the Government getting matters right and value for money, seeing that targets are met and objectives are achieved and that the country is run as effectively as it should be. As Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and as deputy leader of the Government, the Tánaiste presides over FÁS. She either knew these things were going on or she was complicit in them. If that is the case it is a demonstration of utter incompetence. The Tánaiste said these matters were in the past and would never happen again. The board had her full support on two occasions: in February and June. Now the board is to resign in bloc in September. Why has the board lost the confidence of the Government? Is it because of the €600,000 advertisement which was placed and never delivered? Is it about the car that was purchased which never arrived? Or is it about the €622,000 which is now the subject of a file sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions in respect of which nobody seems to know what the money was spent on or where it went? What are the reasons the board has lost the support of the Tánaiste and the Government? Regarding the Tánaiste's previous comments, was she aware of, or complicit in, the actions that were revealed publicly over the past 12 months regarding the higher echelons of FÁS?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I refute that charge on the following basis. On the occasion of the internal audit report being made available to me, I asked the Comptroller and Auditor General to carry out a further investigation and report on this matter. The Committee of Public Accounts was carrying out an investigation and the Comptroller and Auditor General advised that he did not wish to complete the terms of reference until he heard what the committee had to say. That report was brought to my attention by the Comptroller and Auditor General. In the interim, several other actions were taken by me. First, the director general stepped down, an interim director general was appointed and, subsequently, a new director general was appointed.

Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)
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That included a golden handshake.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Second, arising from the internal audit that took place, on my instruction the board was advised to take on board the Department of Finance's regulations. All those actions were taken and the board supported all actions that were necessary in the interim. Yesterday the Cabinet signed off on new legislation regarding the structures of the board. We hope this legislation will be facilitated very quickly in this House, at which stage a new structure will be put in place.

I do not accept there should be any loss of taxpayers' money. That is why the Garda is investigating two matters, one of which is with the Director of Public Prosecutions at this time. Following receipt of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, on my instruction my Secretary General sent the report to the Garda Commissioner for further examination in case any criminal proceedings are needed.

I agree with one point Deputy Kenny made, namely, that the role of FÁS is paramount in the support and training of people in this country. Every Member of this House is more than complimentary about the work being carried out. This is a grave distraction and disappointment to those people who work on behalf of FÁS who had nothing to do with what happened in the corporate side. However, I am adamant that the work of FÁS, its board and the structures that will be set in place by this House very soon will be fit for purpose, very strategic and focused on the needs of the people here who are unemployed and in need of training.

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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The board was asleep.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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This is another demonstration of a senior Minister in a party that has been in Government for too long. The Tánaiste missed completely the extent of anger, frustration and concern that exists among people who are very hard pressed when they see, read about and understand the profligate misspending and misuse of money in this way, after which nothing happens.

The Tánaiste mentioned the Committee of Public Accounts. There were personnel who refused to attend that committee and Deputies of this House, on all sides, including the Government's, were not in a position to ask them questions. The Tánaiste has reports of very high levels of facility being made available on credit cards and the apparent playing fast and loose with taxpayers' money. She pointed out the Garda is carrying out an investigation in this regard but it is not carrying out an investigation into the top up of the pension to the former director general, nor do I suggest it should. The Tánaiste is the person who signed off on that arrangement. What has gone wrong in the public service which does down so many fine officials in so many sectors is precisely that where targets are not met, where targets and objectives are not achieved, where it is clear there is incompetence, gross incompetence in some instances, this is rewarded. This is what causes so much anger for people across the country who are very hard-pressed to make ends meet on a daily and a weekly basis. The former director general admitted he was incorrect and admitted that mistakes were made. The Tánaiste signed off, apparently, on an extra four and a half years of pensionable service for that director general who had, I think, 35 years of service prior to that. Can the Tánaiste justify this on the basis of targets not being achieved, on the basis of incompetence and on the basis of this being admitted by a director general of a very important and massive organisation spending almost €1 billion? She is aware that if a member of the Garda Síochána steps out of line in a serious manner, his or her pension is ended. In this case as in others, the regulator included, there has been a very hefty reward for incompetence. I ask the Tánaiste to explain to the House why she, as Tánaiste and as the Minister presiding over FÁS, was in a position to sign off on an extra four and a half years' pensionable service for the former director general, in view of the incompetence and the inefficiency palpably demonstrated and the waste of public money at the very highest level.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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First, the recommendations of the Committee of Public Accounts are all included in the new legislation. Second, with regard to Mr. Molloy's departure, the severance package has been in the public domain for a considerable period. I did not make the decision lightly.

Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Justify it.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I agreed, not on the basis of the Superannuation and Pensions Act 1963 - as purported in the public domain rather on the basis of the Labour Services Act 1987 which provides for the terms and conditions of directors general of FÁS, including their remuneration and this may be determined by the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment with the consent of the Minister for Finance-----

Pádraic McCormack (Galway West, Fine Gael)
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It does not make it right.

Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)
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The Minister for Finance was to blame.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste without interruption.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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At that time, around this time last year, I thought the most appropriate action would be his speedy departure. Also, the terms of the legislation allow an entitlement of up to five eightieths to employees non-commercial semi-State bodies where contracts are being terminated. Both the Minister for Finance and I worked within the terms of reference of that legislation, on the basis that I was of the view that the speedy departure of the director general from that organisation was appropriate. The alternative-----

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----was to spend taxpayers' money for the next six to nine months in the Four Courts and I thought this would not be the most appropriate action, on the basis that these matters were destroying an organisation whose role-----

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste gave him a sweetheart deal.

Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Did he threaten to take legal action?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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-----on behalf of people who are unemployed is paramount.

Paul Kehoe (Wexford, Fine Gael)
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The Tánaiste gave him a sweetheart deal. It is Fianna Fáil cronyism.

John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Gilmore.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Everyone was shocked during the week at the death of Mr. Paddy Barry, an elderly pensioner in Waterford, following a burglary in his home. We all wish to sympathise with his family. Out of respect for them and because I understand a file is being sent to the Director of Public Prosecutions, I do not wish to focus on that individual case. However, it brings into focus the fear and apprehension experienced by many elderly people, particularly those who are living alone, in the face of the kind of anti-social behaviour such as groups of youths who are out of control and criminal activity. Many are afraid in their own homes and in their communities. This fear would have been added to during the week by reports that one in seven of the prison population is now out on temporary release, a total of 600 prisoners who have been sentenced to various terms of imprisonment and who are now out and about, largely because the Government has made a mess of the provision of prison places.

In that context I recall in my own constituency the closure five years ago of Shanganagh prison. This was a facility for young male offenders which was closed down by the Government. I would ask the Government to reopen it but it would be unable to do so because it sold the prison to a developer. It was reflected in last night's "Prime Time" programme that one of the measures which reduces fear for people who are living alone, particularly elderly people, is a visible presence of gardaí, particularly in their local community.

The McCarthy report recommends the closure of half of the Garda stations in the country, the closure of approximately 350 small Garda stations. I understand there are 22 such stations in the Tánaiste's own county. I have one simple question for the Tánaiste which I think might go some way towards alleviating people's fear. Will she give the House an assurance that those 350 Garda stations will not be closed, that the recommendation will be rejected and that there will not be closure of the small Garda stations throughout the country?

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I wish to express the Government's sympathy to the Barry family because this was a terrible tragedy. As Deputy Gilmore has correctly stated, the issues he has raised are not within the context of one specific tragedy. However, he referred to temporary releases and prison places. Since 1997 this Government has provided an additional 1,400 places and by the end of this year, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will have provided an additional 450 prison places-----

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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And the criminals to go with them.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The McCarthy report proposals regarding the closure of 350 Garda stations would provide a saving of €1 million. No decisions have been made on any of the McCarthy proposals. They are all being considered in the context of the budgetary discussions currently under way. Therefore, I am not in a position to give an assurance, one way or the other, as to what will happen with regard to the McCarthy proposals. However, the new model of community policing which was announced by the Minister at the beginning of the year, is working well. We started a process of taking gardaí out of stations and putting them on the beat rather than doing clerical work. This process is progressive and is significant. The Garda Commissioner has been very enthusiastic about providing a visible presence of members of the force. I must reiterate what the Commissioner said in the context of the terrible tragedy in Waterford during the week, namely that he is anxious that the people who are aware of issues should support the gardaí.

Additional places have been provided and a new model of community policing has been set up by the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. In the context of the McCarthy report all these issues are being considered by the Government but no decisions have been made.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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My question was specifically about the Garda stations. I note that the Tánaiste is not giving the House any assurance that those Garda stations will not be closed.

Last night, the "Prime Time" television programme showed the degree to which people throughout the country are very apprehensive. This is a problem of fear. People are afraid. One of the things which would alleviate the fear is an assurance from the Government that their local Garda station will not be closed down.

There is a recommendation that small Garda stations in villages and local communities throughout the country should be closed down. The Tánaiste should categorically rule out the closure of those Garda stations. I see the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform is providing the Tánaiste with a prompt to do so.

I appreciate that there is a financial difficulty but where is the sense in closing 350 Garda stations to make a saving of €1 million. One could save €1 million by abolishing two ministers of state-----

Frank Feighan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Fine Gael)
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Or the head of FÁS.

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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-----and leaving the 350 Garda stations that would provide a far greater comfort for people who are fearful in their homes.

This recommendation is nonsense. Everyone knows the presence of gardaí in local communities contributes to the prevention of crime, reassures people and is a visible presence of gardaí. It does not make sense to close these Garda stations, particularly when the saving is so small.

If this were a big question about some of the major recommendations in the McCarthy report I would understand the Tánaiste saying the Government is reflecting on the matter and has not yet made a decision, and so on. This is an issue the Tánaiste could put to bed now. She should reassure people that local Garda stations will not be closed and that she will find the million euro savings from elsewhere in the State's budget.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is important to reiterate that Garda numbers are at an all-time high, with 14,800.

Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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And no students.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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We have 2,600 civilians and 600 students in Templemore. Therefore the Garda force is at an all-time high. On the issue of the McCarthy report-----

Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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On Garda stations.

Noel Coonan (Tipperary North, Fine Gael)
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No students, no stations to put them in and no guards.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed that €1 million should be saved on Garda stations. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, in consultation with the Garda Commissioner, will deal with those issues. If the Government decides this is not an appropriate action the million euro will be found elsewhere. There are many recommendations in the McCarthy report which do not make sense.

Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It will be a matter for the Government to make a decision on how to find the appropriate savings to deal with the country's economic and financial difficulties. I am sure Opposition Members will be constructive in their proposals as to where we will find savings of €4 billion.