Joe Costello (Dublin Central, Labour)
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Question 10: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the progress made in the trial phase scheme for smart electronic meters; the number of houses it will cover; when it will be completed; the cost of this scheme; the capabilities of the smart meters to be used; if Bord Gáis electricity customers will be included in this project; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24051/09]

Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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Question 38: To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the progress being made on the roll-out of net meters; the numbers involved; the cost and the timescale agreed; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [24109/09]

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I propose to take Question Nos. 10 and 38 together.

The roll-out of the national smart metering programme is progressing in line with the commitment in the Government's energy policy framework and in the programme for Government. The smart metering programme is a central component of the strategy to radically enhance management of energy demand and to deliver greater energy efficiency through the use of cutting-edge technology.

This is a highly complex technology project. The trials are essential to ensure the optimum and most cost-effective technology and systems are identified for the implementation phase. The electricity element of the pilot phase is expected to be completed at the end of December 2010. It is important to have a trial that captures seasonal changes in usage for peak demand management purposes. The outcome should be a fully informed decision on the most suitable model of smart meter-IT system, tariffing structure, communications system and demand stimuli. The model must have the proven capability to deliver the anticipated benefits of smart metering, taking account of the specifics of the Irish energy system.

The pilot phase encompasses two strands. The technology trial is testing a number of advanced metering systems and their associated IT and communications infrastructure. The customer behaviour trial will determine the potential of smart meters to achieve measurable change in consumer behaviour. The technology trial will examine metering functionality and supporting information and communications systems. This trial will involve the installation of up to 8,000 meters. Installation of the first 2,000 meters for technology testing is due to begin next month.

The 6,000 participants for the customer behaviour trial have been selected to ensure the sample is representative of Ireland's electricity consumers both in terms of usage profiles and geographical spread. Installation of meters for this trial is almost complete with 5,364 residential and 595 SME meters installed at 8 June.

Given the advanced stage of work under way to put in place the systems needed for the pilot, it will not be possible to include the new residential BGE electricity customers in the customer behaviour trial. BGE is involved in the SME element of the trial and will be able to avail of the findings of the residential electricity customer behaviour trial. The specifications of these metering systems will allow the testing of a range of functions to deliver enhanced demand management. These include interval metering reading, time of use tariffing and the use of in-home display devices. They will also provide reliable quality data on actual energy use which will lead to significantly better services to consumers. These include improved fault monitoring and outage recording, power quality monitoring, reduced theft and losses and improved network planning.

The gas element of the smart metering programme is also moving ahead. Over 1,900 customers are expected to participate in gas customer behaviour trials. A further 750 meters will be installed to facilitate the gas technology trials. Customers for the gas customer behaviour trial will be recruited by the end of July 2009. The trial period will begin in June 2010 and will continue until May 2011.

The estimated cost of the pilot is €34.9 million. This comprises €29.9 million for the electricity element and €5 million for the gas element. The cost of a national roll-out will be determined on foot of the results of the pilot programme and decisions taken on the optimum type of cost effective smart metering system that will deliver the level of functionality required in an Irish market.

A key component of the pilot phase is the associated cost-benefit analysis which is under way and which will critically inform future decisions. An interim analysis will be completed next year with the final analysis, to include the results of the gas trials, to be completed by mid-2011.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply. The Minister's original commitment made in November 2007 was for 25,000 homes with an estimated cost of €10 million and the first meters to be installed in the second quarter of 2008. It seems the information the Minister is now giving us is rather different from that plan set out in 2007. Why was there such a difference between the two?

The national roll-out was indicated in previous press releases as being over five years. It is a pretty costly business and one of the questions I have been asked to ask the Minister is who pays. Obviously ultimately the customer pays for services provided. How will that be structured for individuals with smart meters? While I appreciate this is at the experimental stage, I do not want that as an answer. There needs to be some specification or brief as to what this will do. There is a genuine concern that the ultimate beneficiary of smart metering will be the provider rather than the consumer. How does the Minister envisage the benefits being spread between the provider and the consumer?

It seems pretty tough on the people who took the advice of availing of the competition in the market, over which the Minister is very proud to have presided, and moved to An Bord Gáis or Airtricity. It seems they are now blocked from being involved in the smart meter programme. Why is that the case? I had understood that even if a consumer moved to another provider the meter still belonged to the ESB.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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In response to the question as to who pays and who benefits, the Deputy is correct that the supply companies will benefit and it is designed to do that. The first benefit is that there is less theft. With more control over where electricity is going and real-time information as to what is happening, the experience internationally has been real savings, which may be single-digit but are still significant in reducing theft. The provider also achieves savings from the cost of managing that system. It is right that the supply companies should benefit.

The consumer, however, also benefits. One of the reasons it is more expensive is that we are taking more time but it is being done in the right way to get it right. As well as the technology and the companies' systems we are really testing how people react and use the technology. That is probably the most important factor for the pilot's success or otherwise. If through better monitors or display systems consumers can see what they are using and can start to make savings, then they start to win. With systems that can switch off appliances automatically and which have control systems allowing consumers to have much greater control over what they are doing, consumers start to win. The ultimate objective is to reduce the energy use in homes. All the international evidence suggests consumers can do that with proper measurement when they know what is going on.

The companies and the consumers will benefit. While it is expensive and there are costs involved in the set-up and trial period, I am convinced it is the right way to go. Every other advanced economy is planning to implement this. The benefit for us in developing a smart grid system here, starting from the smart meter and including the electric vehicle in the driveway that can be plugged into a socket in the hallway, is that this is an area where considerable international attention and investment is coming. Many jobs can be developed out of the systems here.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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What about the Bord Gáis consumers?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I need to check on that matter and come back to the Deputy. Obviously, Bord Gáis's entry into the market occurred at a late stage when we were very advanced in this trial system. I would need to check what happens when a consumer swaps. This is a meter being installed by the ESB and it is part of its distribution grid system. That is not to say the information and all the other aspects of it will not be fully available to all other companies.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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On the last point, the ESB distribution system is an entirely separate operation from ESB Power Generation. I presume consumers switching to Bord Gáis, Airtricity or any other new electricity supplier should still keep the system that was put in place just as they will keep their wires. It would be farcical if people could not switch electricity supplier for fear of using their energy monitoring system in their homes. If that were the case the ESB would have a complete stranglehold on the market unless other companies were to provide similar information systems, which is essentially the kind of smart metering system the Minister envisages.

The Minister has not answered the question as to why we have gone from having a supposed pilot project of 25,000 smart meters which should have begun their roll-out in the middle of last year to now limiting our ambition to 8,000. Why is that the case? Is the Minister not concerned that the pilot project will only conclude - if all goes well between now and the end of it - by the end of 2010 and then the review period will continue into 2011? It will be mid to late 2011 before we make decisions on whether to roll out a national programme of smart meters. That is two to three years away. In the meantime we are trying to create a smart grid that can facilitate electric cars, micro-generation whereby people sell back to the grid excess power they produce in the home through solar panels, small wind turbines or other systems they might be using. I am concerned that in an effort to get this right we will take an ultra-cautious approach and will drag our feet for the next two to three years analysing a project that I believe we all know will be a success.

Should the ultimate goal not be to have in every house in the country a net meter, which measures electricity, gas and water so that we have a utilities smart meter?

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I need to call the Minister.

Simon Coveney (Cork South Central, Fine Gael)
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I suspect we will get towards that ideal but we will have wasted all this time on the planning project for electricity alone.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The number of houses to participate in this test phase is close to 17,000. Originally it was 21,000. The detailed calculation was done and it was seen that we could deliver the analysis we needed on that basis. It is not a question of whether we are going to do this but how we can best do it. It is a programme for Government commitment and it makes sense. As with anything in the energy area or other areas it is right to test for the best technology, get the real human interaction - the behavioural use - right, and then deploy. After that period at the end of next year I do not envisage great agonising as to whether we will proceed. It will be a question of putting into effect the lessons we have learnt from the test scheme in order to facilitate micro-generation and to facilitate not just electricity metering but also gas and other services going into the home. That is what we are doing in the trial test period. We are carrying out the most advanced, integrated, complex metering possible because we believe that will benefit the Irish householder into future years.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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What about the Bord Gáis customer?

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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The Bord Gáis customer is treated in exactly the same way as the ESB customer. The ESB makes the switch on the basis of a phone call. The software allows all the billing and other information to go to Bord Gáis.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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I happen to be a Bord Gáis customer. The Minister sent an e-mail - I presume Deputy Coveney received the same e-mail - suggesting that I become part of the pilot scheme. A Bord Gáis customer cannot avail of the offer. I am not bothered for myself but by the idea that there is a limitation because someone chooses to take their electricity from a source other than the ESB. As Deputy Coveney said, the two things are separate and should always be so.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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In respect of the Deputy's circumstances, I put that invitation to Members because I thought it was important for us to see how such systems work if we are to legislate and make decisions about the use of such metres.

Liz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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The Minister is aware of the problem.

Eamon Ryan (Dublin South, Green Party)
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I will certainly examine it. I will respond to the Minister's case.