Dáil debates

Wednesday, 29 April 2009

Ceisteanna — Questions

Departmental Staff.

11:00 am

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 3: To ask the Taoiseach if guidelines have been issued to those working in the Government information service or the Government press office in regard to the circumstances and manner in which they contact RTE; if they have issues in regard to a particular programme or item; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [14322/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 4: To ask the Taoiseach the projected cost to date in 2009 of the communications unit in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15538/09]

Photo of Enda KennyEnda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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Question 5: To ask the Taoiseach if he plans to retain the communications unit in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15570/09]

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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Question 6: To ask the Taoiseach if it is intended to retain the communications unit within his Department. [16420/09]

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Question 7: To ask the Taoiseach his plans to alter the role or remit of the communications unit within his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16601/09]

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 7, inclusive, together. The Government press secretary and the staff in the Government press office and the Government information service are subject to all current guidelines applying generally in the Civil Service, as set out the in the Civil Service code of conduct, staff circulars and relevant legislation. No particular guidelines have been prepared with regard to the circumstances and manner in which they contact RTE, or any other media organisation.

The Government press secretary is constantly engaged with all elements of the media, including RTE, communicating news and information in respect of Government policy and the presentation of policies. He has the primary responsibility with regard to the arrangements for interviews with officeholders and any dialogue with media on their reports and features relating to officeholders and official policy. He works very closely with me and I am pleased to account to the House for any action taken by him in the discharge of his official duties.

The staff of the Government information services are engaged in the dissemination of information and communicate with all media organisations on a daily basis regarding the communication of Government policies. The projected cost of the communications unit in 2009 is €294,083, with €153,038 being a direct cost to my Department and €47,005 on average being borne by three other Departments who have staff seconded to the unit.

The projected cost for 2009 represents a reduction of 2.6% on the 2008 cost, of 11.4% on the 2007 cost and of 20% on the 2006 cost. In fact, it is the lowest cost since 2003. This has been achieved through greater efficiency in the operation of the unit and the application of Government policy on reducing staff numbers. I have no current plans to alter the role of the communications unit. The role of the unit is under continual review in terms of its efficiency and cost effectiveness.

Following a recent review of the work of the unit, in conjunction with an audit of Departments' usage of external media monitoring companies, various possibilities were explored with a view to improving efficiency, eliminating duplication and implementing cost savings. To assess whether a viable solution was available that would achieve these objectives, my Department issued a tender for a centralised Government contract for the provision of a press cutting and media monitoring service for all Departments. Following a detailed examination of the tenders, it was decided not to proceed with the award of the contract. In fact, it became clear that the current arrangements were considerably more cost-effective than the alternatives proposed.

Subject to current budgetary constraints, consideration will be given to updating the current somewhat dated equipment in the unit with a view to improving its efficiency and service provision to Departments, thereby reducing the usage of outside media monitoring companies.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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What guidelines are in place and what is the manner in which the Government press secretary and the Government press office deal with complaints, especially to RTE? I note from a reply to a written question from Deputy Varadkar on 1 April that two complaints have been made by the Government press secretary to RTE since May 2008. One was in June of last year and the other in March of this year. The latter complaint related to the drawings hung in the National Gallery of Ireland, which I believe was a rather juvenile exercise.

My concern is not related to that issue as such, but we have heard reports concerning the way in which the complaint was made directly to the director general of RTE. Will the Taoiseach indicate if this was the case? If it was the case, does the Taoiseach consider it appropriate that the Government press secretary should deal with RTE on matters of programme or news content? I do not have any objection to the Government press secretary making contact with news editors and I expect he does so on a very regular basis. However, I was surprised to read that the approach was made directly to the director general. Was this the case and what is the Taoiseach's view in this regard?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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There are no guidelines and I do not believe there should be any strict rules of engagement. There is always a two-way communication process between Government and media organisations and this also applies to Opposition party press officers. It would be unhelpful to have any form of ban or restrictions on such communications or to suggest that there should be guidelines on Government communications with the media which would not apply in the case of Opposition parties. Such a scenario would be absolutely unworkable.

Last month, I read of reports of the communications personnel of the main Opposition party making direct contact with the director general of RTE regarding complaints. Therefore, it is inaccurate to refer only to disagreement between Government and the media. People cannot have it both ways. There should not be a different set of rules for certain press advisers who complain to RTE but not others. There will always be issues in the relationship between the media and the Government and between the media and Opposition parties. The matter cannot be dealt with through a vague set of written guidelines. I am not in favour of any restrictions and a two-way relationship remains appropriate.

Regarding the specific matter in March raised by the Deputy, the Government press secretary contacted RTE regarding a broadcast last month. It stated it had already decided the particular broadcast was inappropriate before any complaints were made and this is an important point. I understand a number of complaints were received.

Regarding the question of contacting the director-general, it may have been that the news editor was not available at the time but I do not know. However, I was not involved and I did not give any instruction. Perhaps the fact that they know each other was a means by which he could communicate the seriousness of his concern as quickly as possible to a relevant member of RTE who was available.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I can understand what the Taoiseach is saying in terms of formal guidelines but there is a relationship between Government and RTE as the State broadcasting service. The Government appoints its authority and Government is primarily responsible for the introduction of legislation under which it operates. Government is responsible for the issue of the licence fee and the level of it. This is a relationship where care needs to be taken to have a dividing line between that relationship between the role of the Government and that of RTE as a State body which ultimately reports to a Department and a Minister. To maintain that distinction and the kind of day-to-day contact that will inevitably occur between the Government press secretary and programme makers within the station is a distinction that the Government needs to ensure it honours, lest there should be any suggestion that the Government is exercising any undue influence on RTE and on what it might be broadcasting.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Deputy Gilmore would know more about that than I would. I have always regarded the Deputy as an acute observer of current affairs.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not have the time to watch television.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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No more than myself.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I do not know what goes on at all. I only hear reports. People tell me what was on the "Late Late Show" and I read about it in the papers the next day.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Like myself. At the same time, in fairness to the Deputy, they know where to find him when they are looking for him.

When people talk about the independence of organisations it does not mean that contact is precluded or that if there is a complaint to be made either way that people should be too shy about making their views known. It is important that the relationship is respectful and appropriate. In this instance the fact that it was something to do with me is irrelevant; the organisation recognised it was inappropriate and that a mistake was made or whatever. It got through the system, however it got through. I did not ask for any action to be taken but rather it was a case of people acting on their own initiative and I understand they were not alone in that.

Photo of Richard BrutonRichard Bruton (Dublin North Central, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach elaborated in his reply that an exercise was undertaken to look at the cost-effectiveness of the service and that it was decided that a centralised service would be less cost-effective. I ask him to elaborate on what was priced and what were the savings shown up in that exercise.

I wish to ask a general question about whether he takes responsibility for looking at the cost-effectiveness of back office services in Departments. I understand on the last count, 85 people are employed in press and information services across the 15 Departments. This seems excessive, a total of six or seven people involved in press and information services work for every Minister. Does the Taoiseach regard it as his role to examine the cost-effectiveness or has he requested an expenditure review exercise to be done on this type of back office service? It is the case now that every area is being looked at with an eye to making savings and I would be interested to know whether that area has come under scrutiny in any way.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The vast majority of the people to whom the Deputy refers deal with the information side of a Department. They provide information services. As the Deputy will be aware, there is a plethora of people interested in what is happening in the Department of Social and Family Affairs such as people in voluntary organisations and apart from the wider public who need to access information. There is often talk in this House about the need for public service organisations to be efficient in that regard. It must be recognised that the vast majority of this work relates to that side of the work of Departments rather than it being a case of press management of ministerial offices or Government issues specifically.

I do not have the details to hand beyond the reply but it was mentioned before that we should consider whether the service could be centralised and I made inquiries. When a tender was put out asking for one supplier to provide the requirements for all Departments, it showed that it was going to be more expensive than allowing each Department to provide for itself. It should be noted that Departments have specialised requirements which are different from Department to Department. For instance, the requirements of the Department of Finance are different to those of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism. While one would have thought it would be a good idea to centralise the service, when this was examined it was discovered that it would not be less expensive.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I did not hear the Taoiseach's substantive reply to these questions and I apologise if he has already answered and I am repeating. Last November I asked the Taoiseach about the then proposed putting to tender of the work of the communications unit or a part of its work. He indicated that the tendering process was then in train, that he would be subsequently advised of the result of the process and a decision would be taken about proceeding or not. Has this happened and if so, what is the cost? The real question is why are we looking again at external supports when within the system, within the public service, there are people who are clearly able and adept at dealing with the issues, apart from the raison d'être behind the communications unit.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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As I stated in my reply, I inquired whether a centralised solution was available that would achieve the objectives of improving efficiency, eliminating duplication and implementing cost savings. A tender was issued for a centralised Government contract for the provision of a press cutting and media monitoring service for all Departments. However, when the tenders were received it turned out to be a more expensive option than letting the Departments provide it for themselves. The accommodation of all the needs of every Department in one tender from a single organisation turned out to be less viable than allowing Departments to work individually and collect the information particular to that Department. This may be surprising but that has been the outcome.

Photo of Caoimhghín Ó CaoláinCaoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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On a point of clarification, do I take it from that information that the tendering process did not proceed, that the Taoiseach has not allowed access to the service to external interests and that it remains an in-house provision?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Whatever the existing arrangements, the proposed new arrangement was not going to be less costly than the existing arrangement. There may be some Departments using outside media press cutting arrangements but I do not have that information available to me, although that may be the case. I am not saying it is all in-house but rather that the suggested alternative which might have been regarded as providing cost savings, on examination does not do so and therefore was not proceeded with on that basis. However, every area of expenditure must be examined for cost-effectiveness.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Is the communications unit subject to the recruitment embargo? Did members of the communications unit see last Friday night's "Late Late Show" and did they report to the Taoiseach on that?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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They did not, nor did I request one.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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They are not doing their job.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I always give them Friday nights off.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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It is just as well. There must be people who know that. It must be well known.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It must be. We do not take offence as easily as the Labour Party. Larger parties can hack this far easier.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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The Taoiseach is a real disappointment. I thought the discipline would be very strong.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I could never understand that democratic centralism Deputy Gilmore espouses and which he is very adeptly bringing into the organisation he leads. Fair dues to him. I have been watching very carefully how he has been able to do that. It is a good operation.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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Is the Taoiseach looking for lessons?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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Not at all. I am watching with interest the little backwash that is coming against him in certain respects as he seeks to pull his party back into the centre.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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There is a touch of the new man about the Taoiseach.

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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It was a good effort on Deputy Gilmore's part and I wish him well.

Photo of Liz McManusLiz McManus (Wicklow, Labour)
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What about the embargo?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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The embargo applies across all areas of the public service subject to the consent of the Minister for Finance.

Photo of Eamon GilmoreEamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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Will the communications unit die of natural causes?

Photo of Brian CowenBrian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)
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I would not think so. The Labour Party gives us plenty of food for thought.