Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 68: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his position in relation to the community support for older people scheme; if he will confirm that this scheme will recommence in 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16848/09]

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Question 69: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs if his attention has been drawn to the concern expressed by community groups and representative groups for the elderly at the decision to terminate the scheme of community support for older people, which provided assistance for the installation of personal monitored alarms and items of home security; his views on whether the scrapping of the scheme will leave elderly people vulnerable to attack; the amount to be saved as a result of the move; if he will reconsider the decision and re-establish the scheme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [16851/09]

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I propose to take Questions Nos. 68 and 69 together.

The scheme of community support for older people was suspended on 7 April. This was done with a view to affording my Department the opportunity to review the scheme's operation and to consult with interested parties over the next few months to address a number of concerns.

It is essential that we recognise the home security concerns of our older citizens. While statistics will tell us that the incidence of crime affecting older people is low compared to other age groups, older people's perception of the risk of crime is high. It also may be useful to remind Deputies of the background to this scheme. It was introduced in 1996 arising from a special task force on security for the elderly following a spate of burglaries on the homes of older people. It was based on the concept of providing funds to voluntary and community organisations working with or providing support for vulnerable older people to provide a range of personal security devices. Since 1996, some €43.7 million has been paid out under the scheme.

My Department has operated the scheme since mid-2002. In excess of €20 million has been provided since then to community and voluntary organisations with an estimated 60,000 older people being direct beneficiaries — either by being supplied with a monitored alarm, sometimes referred to as the pendant alarm or panic button, or one of the other security items for their homes.

My Department has reviewed the scheme on a couple of occasions in recent years and, as a result, a number of innovations have been introduced. Arising from recommendations made in 2004 the grant is now fixed at €300 per installation for the monitored alarm and lower amounts for the other equipment available. This approach has helped to ensure that community groups get good value for money and that commercial suppliers are obliged to provide quality equipment at a reasonable price, given that these products vary little in their design or service.

Other changes introduced include increasing the maximum individual grant in respect of physical security equipment to €200 and the maximum individual grant in respect of security lighting to €200; from 2006, the introduction of a grant of €150 for interior emergency lighting for qualifying older people living on our offshore islands; providing grant support in respect of smoke alarms and emergency lighting; and providing funding for carbon monoxide detectors where they are supplied as part of other smoke detection devices.

In addition, the 2006 scheme saw the introduction for the first time of an administration subvention to participating groups. The amount of this subvention is based on the size of a group's previous year's grant, with a maximum of €600 and a minimum of €100 being made available. This subvention recognised the role of the community groups in the administration of this scheme and I think Deputies will agree we owe a great debt of gratitude for their work over the years.

The changes introduced in the past few years, however, have meant that the demand for grants has grown to unsustainable levels. From 2002 to 2006, average annual expenditure on the scheme was approximately €2.4 million. In 2007, expenditure went to €3.7 million and it increased further in 2008 when expenditure reached €4.3 million. Deputies will agree that these levels of increase are unsustainable. While the changes introduced to the scheme in recent years have provided for greater flexibility and access, I have concerns that it may no longer target genuine need among older people. The suspension of the scheme will allow an opportunity to examine these concerns and a range of other issues that also have been identified. I know there is broad agreement as to the value of the scheme but I honestly believe there is an urgent need to review it in order to ensure it operates effectively.

In the circumstances, last week the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, and I met representatives of Age Action Ireland, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul, Muintir na Tire, Irish Rural Link and the Senior Citizens' Parliament to discuss the suspension of the scheme and the concerns about how it currently operates. Arising from those discussions, we have agreed with these groups a process that will set the broad parameters for a review of the scheme and for the necessary consultation to be undertaken as part of it. I am hopeful the review process can begin in May and be completed by mid-September.

Additional information not given on the floor of the House

The bodies have agreed to participate in the review process and to work with my officials. They have also agreed to work together to give their general view about the scope of the review and how they see it developing. I assure Deputies that all applications received up to the suspension of the scheme will be processed and approved, as appropriate, in line with the current eligibility criteria. Funding will be made available to eligible groups in the coming weeks. More than €1 million worth of applications have been received in the first three months of this year and at the end of March, nearly €640,000 had been paid out to eligible applicants.

I am hopeful that with the co-operation of the national bodies referred to, the terms of reference for the review can be finalised fairly quickly. It is important to note, however, that the suspension of the scheme does not in any way affect those who have already received a monitored alarm device. I wish to reiterate my commitment to this scheme. It is my intention to relaunch it later in the year, once the review is completed.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

On 6 April the Minister of State announced funding for this scheme and on 7 April his colleague beside him, the senior Minister, announced the suspension of the scheme. Many elderly people throughout the country are worried. Many people who are living in their homes would be in nursing homes were it not for this scheme. The scheme has had a great voluntary element with many people supporting it on a voluntary basis. The Government attacked the over-70s with the removal of the medical card and it is now attacking elderly people who live at home. This scheme worked well and it gave people confidence, particularly now when we have high crime levels. Many elderly people have been beaten up in their homes, some of them having to go to hospital and others being robbed. At least when they had a panic button they could press it and a neighbour or the Garda Síochána would come to their assistance. I hope this announcement is not merely to get the Government over the local elections. I hope it is not the case that the Government is announcing the suspension of the scheme in order to reinstate it or review it by September.

Dinny McGinley (Donegal South West, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

That never entered their heads.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Of course it would not.

I want the Minister of State to answer a straight question. Is this scheme going to continue? That is my question. I want the Minister of State to reassure the elderly people of this country who are waiting for an answer. We do not want a review. This scheme is working and it costs very little money in the context of the Government's overall budget. There are many other areas within the Department where funding could be cut, and where it is being wasted, rather than suspending this scheme. I want to know if this decision is being made just to get the Government over the local and European elections.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I reject the Deputy's allegation about the local elections. If I were being devious I would not have made the announcement until after the local elections——

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It shows the Minister of State does not know what is going on.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is easy for Deputy Ring to stand up and say there is loads of money in the Department. When he suggests that funding should be cut elsewhere, where would he cut the funding. On what programme would he cut funding?

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will show where in the next question.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I will afford him the opportunity.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The tradition is that the Opposition asks the questions and the Government answers the them.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I am doing my best to answer them.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

Thank you, Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I wish to clarify that the scheme was suspended following the budget and it is unfair to blame the Aire here beside me because it was my decision to suspend it and review it in the context of the budget. The Deputy asked if it was a review and will the scheme be brought back. The whole point of reviewing it is that the figures have increased very substantially——

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

And rightly so.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

——and at a time when we must be sure when spending the money that we are targeting those in real need. If we did not review the scheme and have guidelines in place, those people in real need would be missed.

I did not have an opportunity to complete my reply in the House but it is important to say — in case there is any misunderstanding — that the applications received on hand prior to the suspension of the scheme have not yet been processed but they will be processed in the normal way as part of the original or ongoing scheme. Applications received before the suspension still have to be processed.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is an absolute disgrace that this has happened. I do not blame the Minister of State, I blame the man sitting beside him. It is a total lack of recognition of the value of this scheme. What does one say to the Clontarf Active Retirement Association who held a meeting and 50 people turned up? Does one say, "Hold on, there are too many of ye, we cannot give ye all money, we will give it to one or two in the group"? This scheme worked and it was creating employment. Does the Minister of State not realise the various groups created employment by hiring electricians or people to install the equipment? It is unbelievable to think there will now be a fourth review of the scheme which has been in operation since 1996 when it was introduced by Prionsias De Rossa. The Minister of State is now going to start another review. It is unbelievable to think that the Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív, is hiding behind all the associations and he is using them. I do not blame the Minister of State, Deputy Curran. The Minister is using those associations to hide one of the worst decisions of the budget. He did not have the guts to come out and say the scheme was being cut because the money was not there. He hid behind the associations, saying there would be a review when each and every one of them wrote to every Member saying the scheme should not be suspended. They said the scheme was of wonderful benefit to the communities where it was being implemented. The Minister should not try to tell us he is working with the associations. He is hiding behind them. The Minister, not the Minister of State, Deputy Curran, is the man responsible for this.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I reject the accusation that the review is a waste.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

It is an absolute and total waste.

John Curran (Dublin Mid West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The scheme has been reviewed on a number of occasions and every time it was reviewed it improved significantly. The most recent review meant people could make an application on an ongoing basis. Traditionally, one could apply only once a year and if one missed that, one had to wait 12 months. If we are to target resources at people with real need, we must review this scheme to ensure it is doing that. As I pointed out earlier, the scheme was working at a certain level and suddenly the figures increased dramatically. We are in a time where a certain amount of resources are available to us and it is my job to ensure that those resources are targeted specifically at the elderly people who need them most. The scheme is being reviewed. The groups I mentioned previously sat down with us and are happy — very much so — to fully participate in that review, despite Deputy Wall's comments. It is my firm intention to clarify, in case there is any misunderstanding, that the scheme will be back in operation.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
Link to this: Individually | In context

If there are problems in the scheme, the Minister should tell the House what they are. He has enough officials in his Department to deal with these problems. If there is a problem he should deal with it. The overall scheme worked and elderly people felt safe in their homes. There was a large voluntary capacity. Many people actively supported this scheme and were not being paid. There might have been a commercial element, but the Minister should deal with that if there is a problem. I want, and I have, the Minister's assurance that this scheme will continue. The Minister might tell the House what the problems are besides money because he has an overall budget.

The budget was announced on 6 April and on 7 April the Minister said the scheme was to be suspended. Did the Minister and Minister of State talk to one another? Some Ministers do not talk to each other. Do the Minister and Minister of State talk to one another? If not, will they get together and talk and try to keep this scheme up and running?

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
Link to this: Individually | In context

The reason there were more applications is that the groups around the country made the senior citizens aware of it. There are not people who are not senior citizens applying for the scheme. The Ministers should cop themselves on and not use the line that there are too many applications. Did anybody ever hear such a stupid idea that there are too many applications when every one of them qualified for the scheme? How does the Minister make that assertion when each applicant must state his or her age and qualifies? The Minister said too many have qualified. What he is trying to convince us of is unbelievable. Ms Phyl Lee, secretary of the Clontarf Active Retirement Association, said the group recently held a meeting to explain the scheme and 50 people turned up. They were 50 senior citizens who are entitled to the scheme and the Minister says there are too many of them. It is an absolute joke.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
Link to this: Individually | In context

I repeat that the scheme was designed to meet real needs. Members of this House, the Deputy's party included, have made representations and spoken to me and the Minister about their concerns regarding the scheme. There is a finite amount of resources available at any time and my concern is to ensure that the scheme is administered so that the real needs of those elderly people are met and accommodated through this scheme. In response Deputy Ring, the Minister and I talk.