Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)
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Question 42: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the grants made to a group (details supplied) during 2008 and to date in 2009; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8974/09]

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Question 52: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason payments to a group (details supplied) were increased by 62% in his Department's Estimate for 2009 in view of the fact that virtually all other headings relating to the Gaeltacht and the Irish language were reduced; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8973/09]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I propose to take Questions Nos. 42 and 52 together.

The group referred to in the "details supplied" is a fund operated by my Department under which payments are made for specific purposes. As the questions have been put down on a "details supplied" basis, my understanding is that the rules of the House prevent me from being more specific in this regard. However, I have arranged that a list of the grants approved from the fund in 2008 and 2009 to date be supplied directly to the Deputies.

The reason the provisional 2009 allocation for the fund has shown an increase of 62% relates to a provision announced in the budget for a particular group. Again, I understand I am unable to provide a more specific reply in the context of a "details supplied" question. However, I can say that the provision in question related to both capital and current funding. It is envisaged that a significant portion of the amount in question — that relating to the capital funding — will transfer out of my Department's Vote in the context of the forthcoming Revised Estimates volume.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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I am somewhat bewildered by the Minister's response. It is not the first time I have had such a reaction in my dealings with his Department. I am concerned that something of a shadow has been cast over the organisation in question, which performs an important function.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy names the organisation to which he refers, I can give him the answer to his question.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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The organisation to which I refer is Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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If the Deputy had included the organisation's name in his question, I could have responded more directly.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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I am glad the Minister is so careful of all details. However, his response strikes me as fussy beyond what is reasonable. Nevertheless, we now have clarity as to the point raised in these questions.

Both Foinse and The Irish Times have reported that on the eve of the budget, an application was made by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann for funding of €50,000, but that it subsequently received an allocation of €3 million. This has been denied by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann, which claims it applied for €4 million and received €3 million. Will the Minister clarify this for the House? Other than transport to the islands and the 62% increase for Coiste na Gaeilge, funding under every other subhead relating to the Irish language and the Gaeltacht has been reduced. The Minister has made a public statement in which he said that the precise funding for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in 2009, and the breakdown between current funding provided by his Department and capital funding provided by the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, will be decided shortly when the Revised Estimate volume is completed.

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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References by Deputies to public statements by Ministers are not in order at Question Time.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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I am seeking clarification on this issue. I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle for bearing with me. All I want is clarity.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am pleased to be able to clarify this issue. I will provide the Deputy with a table which outlines the payments from my Department to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann in 2006, 2007 and 2008, as well as the approved allocation for 2009. Parallel to the current funding provided by my Department, capital funding has been provided in recent years through the Vote of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism for the development of regional centres for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann.

What happened was that, in order to complete the capital programme, money was provided and was included in my Department's Vote when it should have been included in the Vote of the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism. In order to convey the full picture, I will provide the Deputy with all the detail of current spending, as well as comparative figures, breakdowns and so on. After that, I suggest that he ask the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism how much it has given in capital funding in the relevant years. It will then be clear that there has been no large windfall increase in funding for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann.

The core funding for that organisation was €575,000 in 2006; €600,000 in 2007; €630,000 in 2008; and will be retained at €630,000 for 2009. However, an additional €30,000 will be added to that figure representing the €30,000 that was allocated in each of those years to the Coleman centre in Gurteen, which allocation is now being subsumed into the core funding. In addition, we have acceded to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann's application for €60,000 in respect of Brú Ború. Therefore, it is receiving an additional——

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Does this sum correspond to the €50,000 to which reference was made in the media?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Yes, but according to my Department, the sum involved is €60,000. We will not argue over €10,000.

Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)
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We may have to before the year is over.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I understand the sum in question is €60,000.

The allocation under the regional development programme was €865,000 in 2006; €950,000 in 2007; and €1.25 million in 2008. This year, at the completion of that programme, there will be a full-year cost of €1.46 million. The reason for the increase is that this was a rolling programme of regional centres being opened by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. If a person was employed in September last year, for example, full-year funding must be provided this year. Given that the programme was agreed four or five years ago, it did not appear in the freedom of information request regarding the funding sought by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann for 2009. This funding was requested and granted some years ago.

The total allocation, therefore, was €1.47 million in 2006; €1.58 million in 2007; €1.91 million in 2008; and €2.18 million for 2009. The 2009 figure includes the €60,000 for Brú Ború and the final instalment of increases under the regional development programme. The total increase is some €270,000 this year. I will send the tables to the Deputy but I am not sure what amount it received in capital spending. Some of the €3 million that was allocated to my Vote has been transferred in the Revised Estimates to the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism. I do not have figures available on whether this represents an increase or a decrease on last year's capital allocation. The Deputy will have to contact that Department.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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The Minister's detailed reply casts some light on the situation for me. Coiste na Gaeilge is funded by the national lottery and part of the allocation from the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism for capital funding to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann ended up in the allocation to Coiste na Gaeilge.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Temporarily.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Why did that happen? I thought that Ministers were very careful when planning their budgets and knew what happens in total detail. The Minister does not know why a sum of €3 million funded by the national lottery arrived under a head in his Vote. I find that incredible but I am sure there is an explanation.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a very simple explanation. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann has a rolling programme and it was divided between two Departments. Perhaps this is not the best arrangement but that is the way it has been done since the regional programme began. My Department catered for current spending and the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism catered for capital spending. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann applied for this programme to be completed and the money was allocated to my Vote. It is a simple matter of transferring it into the correct Vote. It is untidy but I assure the Deputy that I keep a careful eye on minor details of Votes and how money is spent. It came into my Vote in the short term and it will now be transferred out. It was one of those things that happens. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann raised a legitimate question that it was in the middle of a capital programme and one cannot drop building projects halfway through. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann asked that it be given one final allocation to build regional buildings and this was acceded to at the last minute. It went into the wrong Vote to put it simply. There is some extra current spending included but it only amounts to €200,000. This does away with many other arguments, such as that money was given to Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann at the expense of Údarás na Gaeltachta. That was nonsense.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We spoke about this at the last Question Time. It is a national scandal and that is why we spoke about the one-stop shop at the last Question Time. As Deputy O'Shea says, we have too many agencies and too many organisations draw money from several agencies. That is why Deputy McHugh was frustrated. When one tables questions, the information is not with one Minister but it is with another Minister. This causes frustration. One wonders whether the Government has organised this in such a way that it will not answer the queries. Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann is under this Department or the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism and no organisation should be able to draw down funds from two Departments if one Department has control of the organisation. Is everything received by Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann audited and does the Department receive audited accounts every year?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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There is a simple answer to the second question. We receive business plans and audited accounts. Members of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann and its branches have access to the audited accounts. Under the new charities legislation, if the organisation has charitable status, it will have to publish audited accounts. No one would have any difficulty accessing the audited accounts of Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann.

In principle I agree with the Deputy in respect of matters being simpler and why this is split between two Departments is a good question. With CLÁR funding, Deputies will agree with the idea of someone providing top-up funding to group water schemes. In an ideal world the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government would have given that funding years ago but it did not happen. In the real world, to make it happen, I provided it. Deputy Ring's suggestion is a question for debate. If we told partnerships that they could not participate in community employment schemes under the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Deputy Ring would be very quick to table a question on this.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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They are all State agencies but I referred to where they are not State agencies and are drawing down from various agencies without accountability. At least county councils, the Minister and other Departments——

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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Not to obfuscate, I provided a table on current spending and I have told the Deputy that if he received a similar table on capital spending from the Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism he would have the other part of the equation. He would then have both the current and capital spending and could compare whether the money is increasing or decreasing and whether there was a windfall for Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann. I was trying to be upfront about the information.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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I accept that the Minister is being upfront but Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann receives money from the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism, the Arts Council, the Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the Department of Foreign Affairs in respect of international travel. The organisation does the country proud when it travels. When money turns up in the Vote of the Department and the Minister is not quite sure why it is there, it raises the question to which Deputy Ring has referred. Should we not streamline the funding of an organisation so that it comes from one source? Money is wasted and resources are wasted if different Departments have to process various claims. Does the Minister agree with this approach or does he agree that the current system is appropriate and the most effective and efficient?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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In principle I agree with the approach of Deputy O'Shea as long as it is not carried on to a ridiculous degree. When one makes a rule one finds that it applies to a situation to which one did not intend it to apply. I agree that there would be sense in all Departments funding this together. Such an approach created this problem because Comhaltas Ceoltóirí Éireann was receiving the money from two Departments and it sought funding from a Department that is over us all. It received additional current spending, €200,000, and capital spending together. Rather than dividing the sum it was allocated to one Vote because a unitary view was taken to the whole package. This is why it wound up in one Vote rather than two. It would have been better if a unitary view was taken as suggested by Deputy O'Shea before it was split into the appropriate Votes. Taking the unitary approach created this problem because capital and current allocations were put into the same Vote. It is a valid question.