Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Question 8: To ask the Minister for Education and Science if he has sought or received information from the various primary and post-primary schools here which are expected to be affected negatively in the course of the school year by the budgetary cuts announced in budget 2009 and thereafter; if he has ascertained whether teacher job losses are expected to affect some schools to a greater extent than others; if he has issued instructions or guidelines as to the way this might be managed; if his attention has been drawn to the curtailment of classes or other negative impacts on the curriculum or deterioration in the pupil-teacher ratio; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7890/09]

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I have consistently said the 2009 budget required difficult choices to be made across all areas of public expenditure. These decisions were made to control public expenditure and to ensure sustainability in the long run. In this respect education, while protected to a much greater extent than most other areas of public expenditure, could not be totally spared. At the time of the budget I set out the likely impact of the various measures including the projected net impact on teacher numbers in primary and post-primary schools, which was estimated at a loss of 200 posts in each sector. The budget measures will impact on individual schools in different ways depending on whether enrolment is rising or declining and the degree to which any one school has more teachers than it is entitled to under the allocation processes. Across the school system generally there will of course be some impact on class sizes and at post-primary level the changes may impact on the capacity of individual schools to offer as wide a range of subject choices as heretofore.

In terms of the position at individual school level the key factor for determining the level of resources provided by my Department is the pupil enrolment at 30 September 2008. The annual process of seeking this enrolment data from schools took place in the autumn and the data have since been received and processed in my Department enabling the commencement of the processes by which teaching resources are allocated to schools for next September.

My Department has written to the primary schools that are projected to have a net loss or gain in classroom teaching posts in September 2009. As part of my efforts to ensure that relevant information is openly available to the public, detailed information on the opening position for primary schools is published on my Department's website. This provisional list sets out the details on individual schools that, taken collectively, are projected to gain 128 posts and to lose 382 posts, a net reduction of 254 posts. It is my intention to have this information updated and ultimately to set out the final position when the allocation processes are completed.

Initial allocation letters have also issued to post primary schools and vocational educational committees. All these allocations, primary and post-primary, are provisional and reflect the initial allocation position. The final position for any one school will depend on a number of other factors such as the allocation of support teachers, additional posts for schools that are developing rapidly and posts allocated as a result of the appeals processes.

The operation of redeployment arrangements also impacts on the final position, as a teacher can remain in his or her existing school where a suitable redeployment position does not exist. The final staffing position for all schools will therefore not be known until the autumn. At that stage the allocation process will be fully completed for mainstream classroom teachers and any appeals to the staffing appeals board will have been considered. The appellate process is particularly relevant at post-primary level where any specific curricular needs of the school concerned are considered. Also at post-primary level there is no effective system-wide redeployment scheme and this can mean that schools retain teachers, though over quota.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Just after the budget the Minister told the House the net effect would be the loss of 200 teachers. He is now telling the House that the net effect on mainstream teachers will be 254. Is that not a fact? Is that only a minimal figure because it does not consider the reduction in English language support, special needs and home-school community liaison teachers? There will be 1,000 redundancies in the primary sector this year when one takes the totality of those cuts across the sectors. Will the Minister comment on that? Earlier I asked the Minister if he can give a categorical assurance to the House that there will be no further cutbacks in education this year in the primary and post-primary sectors and I would like to hear his views on that.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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I still hold to the claim that 200 posts will go in the primary sector. All the indications my Department and I have suggest that the net effect will be that 1,100 teachers will be taken out and demographics will show that 900 teachers will come into the system. I might go through with the Deputy the various processes involved before we can come to the final result. We will not know the absolute figures until some time in October 2009 because, as the Deputy knows, the figures that went out this week are provisional and there is the appeals process. There are other posts to be allocated. Resource posts are allocated on an annual basis by application. There will be approximately 350 developing area posts. Many other factors must be examined and will impact on the final result. My officials and I are still happy that the net effect will be an overall reduction of 200 posts in the primary sector.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Only in the mainstream.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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In the primary sector.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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That is only in the mainstream.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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No, overall.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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This is interesting. Has the Minister included in that figure, for example, English language support teachers, the loss of home-school-community liaison teachers and his decision on the suppression of the 128 classes on special needs?

On the other question I asked, could he bring some finality to this? Can he give the House a categorical reassurance that there will be no further cutbacks this year in the primary and post-primary sectors? I have asked that questions three times.

Ruairi Quinn (Dublin South East, Labour)
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He could ask it 30 times.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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In the current situation, I will not make any prognosis on what might happen. As of now, the budget position stands in terms of the funding available to me. If the economy deteriorates further, I am not sure what impact that will have. Please do not hold me to making prognoses. On foot of the information available and on the basis of the budget allocation given to me, I do not envisage any changes at this point in time.

My Department's estimates are calculated on the basis that approximately 900 additional posts will be needed in primary schools in September next due to demographics and the projected growth in provision for children with special education needs in schools. That estimate is based on a reduction of 1,100 posts. These will come from a change made to the basic staffing schedule, the reduction in the number of language support teachers, the adherence to the allocation arrangements associated with children with special education needs and the withdrawal of teacher posts which have been historically provided under previous disadvantaged schemes to non-DEIS schools. We still maintain that there will be a reduction of 200 posts and the issues Deputy Hayes raised have been factored in.

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Could the Minister inform the House of comments he made about the English language support teachers? I understand he will issue a circular to schools setting out a process through which they will know exactly how many will be lost. He stated at budget time that he would consider on a case-by-case basis the number of English language support teachers. This is an issue of considerable concern in schools.

Am I correct that there is a redeployment scheme in the primary sector but there is no such scheme in post-primary education? The Minister is trying to negotiate a redeployment scheme, but with no agreement on such a scheme, how can he possibly implement the loss of 200 posts in post-primary education?

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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On language support, I am conscious that certain schools have taken in a high number of non-Irish nationals and that in no way should we penalise those schools. We have gone back to pre-2007 levels of language support and, as it were, cut it to two language support teachers, but where schools can show a high incidence of non-nationals who require language support, the Department will look at it.

A circular letter on language support is to go out to all the schools indicating how they might qualify for additional language support. The Department is working on that circular. I indicated today that I hoped I would be in a position to issue that circular within the next two weeks and I will try to hold to that.

Using the primary school panel we can move teachers on from one school to another——

Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)
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Redeploy.

Batt O'Keeffe (Cork North West, Fianna Fail)
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——provided they are within 45 km of each other. When we were factoring in a loss of only 200 posts at second level, we took account of the fact that we would not be able to redeploy teachers in that sector. That is why I am anxious that we proceed with redeployment issues. We reckon there are approximately 200 teachers surplus within the second level system who are not being moved on and who could be assigned to other schools that need their professionalism. This is in the interests of everybody. If the redeployment scheme could be negotiated and finalised, we would be in a position to redeploy those teachers.