Dáil debates

Wednesday, 25 February 2009

Priority Questions

Departmental Agencies.

1:00 pm

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Question 41: To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the future of the Equality Authority, having regard to the resignation of the chief executive and six members of the board; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7755/09]

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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As I outlined in response to Question No. 2 of 18 December 2008 which was also tabled by Deputy Rabbitte, the Government is committed to the principle of equality and the elimination of discrimination. This has been enunciated in the many equality Bills passed by the Oireachtas. I reiterate that I am committed to ensuring the Equality Authority has a secure and viable future. I am glad that the chairperson of the authority, Dr. Angela Kerins, recently corrected media reports suggesting the authority had closed. She has confirmed that it remains open for business at both its offices, in Birchgrove House, Roscrea, and Clonmel Street, Dublin. According to Dr. Kerins, the board and staff of the authority are more determined than ever to drive the equality agenda forward. They will do so in partnership with individuals and organisations committed to equality in society.

I indicated in response to Question No. 699 of 27 January last that I had filled two vacancies that had arisen on the board of the Equality Authority, following the making of nominations by the Irish Business and Employers Confederation. Arrangements are in place to fill the remaining four vacancies. Twelve people are serving on the board of the authority. The board, as empowered by the Employment Equality Act, appointed a member of staff as acting chief executive on 17 December 2008. I accept that 2009 will be a difficult year for all public bodies, including agencies in the justice area. Like many other public sector bodies, the Equality Authority has been given more modest resources this year with which to achieve its goals but it has taken up this challenge. I understand it has agreed its strategic plan for the period between 2009 and 2011. It will be launched and published within the next week or so. I commend and support the determination of the board and staff of the authority to fulfil its complex mandate.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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How can the Minister reconcile what he has just said with his decision to drive out the chief executive and six directors of the Equality Authority who believe the authority has been neutered and undermined? It has been killed off, in effect, in terms of its traditional role. Will the Minister answer the question he evaded the last time we discussed this matter? If his purpose was to save money, why did the Government add four directors to the board? Why did it decide last year to pay the 12 directors for the first time, at a total cost of €113,000? Why did it decide to pay them for the first time when their predecessors who served selflessly had to do their tremendous work without remuneration? How does the Minister reconcile this with his stated desire to save money?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy has asked about the payment of fees to directors. I remind him that the board has a significant workload. Members of the boards of other public sector bodies and agencies are paid substantial stipends for their attendance at board meetings. Sanction for this payment was originally obtained from the Department of Finance in 2005. It was decided that relatively modest fees could be paid to board members from 2007. The logic of the Deputy's contribution seems to be that we should not pay fees to board members of other bodies. Does he believe we should give them nothing in return for their attendance at meetings of such bodies? Perhaps that could be done in the many agencies within the remit of my Department. It would save money. However, we need to be fair to people who are prepared to give of their time. It is only fair that some stipend should be paid. It is obvious that the situation has regressed in recent times.

When the former chief executive of the Equality Authority met me, he admitted that a careful look was necessary. It was a calm meeting. I explained that things would be difficult for me and the authority. I referred to the budget available to me for 2009. I indicated that I was giving priority to the fight against crime. I mentioned that as many as possible of the Department's resources would be used to that end. I assured him that bodies such as the authority would retain their core funding to allow them to proceed. Some members of the board disagreed with this. However, there are still 12 people on the board and two new members have been appointed. Ten remained on the board. They have been unfairly treated in some of the public commentary on the issue. They have agreed, independently of me——

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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How can it be said that there are 12 people?

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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——that they are fully committed to working on the core issues that need to be focused on if progress is to be made with the equality agenda.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I ask the Minister to allow Deputy Rabbitte to ask a brief supplementary question before the time for this question expires.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I will. I want to finish on this. I am confident——

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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The Minister can incorporate the rest of his answer into the answer he will give to the supplementary question. I call Deputy Rabbitte.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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I am not sure I understand how there are still 12 people on the board, working as hard as the Minister says they are. He said there were four vacancies. Is it not the case that the Government cleaned out the original board before it drove out the chief executive? It added four directors, thereby increasing the size of the board to 12. Those who supervised the authority's previous body of work were all cleaned out. The Government did this before the vindictive sacking took place of the authority's chief executive who can be very proud of the work he did. I would like to know whether six directors of any other semi-State body have asked a Minister to take his fees back — to stick them up his geansaí. Can the Minister give me another example of an agency in which six directors have said they are quitting because they believe in the chief executive? He cannot defend his vindictive and disgraceful act. What would he say in response to Mr. Goodwin who was appointed to the board on behalf of the Carers Association? When he resigned, he said the new chairperson of the authority had clearly indicated her desire to diminish the role of professional people within the organisation and to move the organisation away from its role as an advocate for those who could not represent themselves. The Minister has utterly changed the purpose and role of the authority, as it was intended to operate and as it operated before he took the vindictive action to which I have referred.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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While Mr. Goodwin is entitled to his opinion, it is just one opinion.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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Six former members of the board have the same opinion.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I implacably disagree with it, as does the chairperson, the acting chief executive officer and the other members of the board. The situation may be more difficult from a budgetary point of view, but the Deputy is misleading the House by suggesting that Mr. Crowley was sacked. He was not sacked, but chose to leave.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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It was constructive dismissal.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The fact is that when the going gets tough, I would like to think that the tough get going and not walk off the pitch. Mr. Crowley made his decision, as did other members of the authority. I am not arrogant enough to think that people are indispensable, nor should the Deputy or anyone else.

Photo of Charles FlanaganCharles Flanagan (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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He was put off the pitch.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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No matter who is CEO of the Equality Authority, the authority will continue to do its work and to meet its core functions. The board members are adamant that they will continue to do that. They have been given the resources.

In response to the accusation that the authority will be hamstrung on advocacy issues, it will have more money this year for legal advice and case representation by lawyers to prosecute cases before the Equality Tribunal, which received a 15% increase in its budget. The authority will receive more money this year as a result of an examination of the budget. That completely contradicts the allegation that the authority will have fewer chances to advocate the issue of equality. I strongly suggest that the people like the Deputies opposite do not bring their ideological hang-up to bear on this.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is the person with the ideological hang up.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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All of the legislation on equality issues has been passed when my party was on this side of the House.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister is the person who forced the man out. He did not even know about the legal case until the last day.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy can talk the talk, but he could not walk the walk when his party was in Government.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister did not even know about the legal case until he went back to his Department. How is it progressing?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I want to move on to Deputy Naughten's question.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy did not do anything about these issues when he was on this side of the House.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister did not even know about it.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Minister, I call on you to answer——

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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What did I not know about?

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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He did not even know about the legal case.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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What legal case?

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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Minister, the Chair will not be disobeyed.

Photo of Pat RabbittePat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)
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The Minister should be on the Abbey stage.

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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I call on the Minister to move on to Question No. 42.

Photo of Dermot AhernDermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)
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I did not know about the Portmarnock case——

Photo of Brendan HowlinBrendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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If the Minister refuses to move on, I will adjourn the House.