Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I thank the Minister of State for coming into the House to reply to these Adjournment debates. However, it is the duty of the relevant line Minister or Minister of State to come before the House to answer the questions that are pertinent to their Departments. The Minister of State before us today should not be asked to double up for people who are absent. It is regarded as an insult to the House; not by him, but by those who are absent.

This Adjournment matter relates to the decision by the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to disqualify part-time firefighters from an entitlement to jobseeker's allowance on the basis that they must be available for work outside their immediate vicinity, with the obvious hardship consequences arising from commitments already entered into in better times.

In view of the fact that part-time firefighters were paid by local authorities, a decision was made several years ago that they would qualify for social welfare benefit or assistance if they needed it during the course of a particular year. The part-time service was not sufficient to maintain a reasonable income. The decision was taken in 1996 to establish the practice whereby they would qualify for the payment within certain specified limits. The standards were laid down, but it appears that the current Minister has arbitrarily changed this in line with other cuts. Unfortunately, part-time firefighters have already entered into commitments such as mortgages and expenditure last year.

There will now be a serious diminution in the quality and the availability of firefighters working on a part-time basis. They will be forced to seek jobs outside of their immediate area. Incidentally, notwithstanding the good news given by the Minister of State a short while ago, there is much bad news out there on the jobs front at the moment. Many people are losing their jobs, and how does the Minister expect that these people have a better chance than anyone else to seek jobs in that very competitive market? I do not think it is possible. I do not expect the Minister of State to comment on this, other than to give me the precooked version that has come from the Department of Social and Family Affairs.

It is appalling that this is occurring at a time when local authorities are facing cutbacks at every level, such as the 80 people who were let go by Kildare County Council in the past couple of weeks. The fire service is a very important service on which the community depends 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Any interference with it can only result in an inferior quality of service. It can result in loss of life. We all know the consequences of this. Every Member has experience of the part-time firefighters being first on the scene, and in many cases giving their lives. It is a serious issue, and I ask the Minister for Social and Family Affairs to review this situation and restore the status quo.

The part-time fire service depends on the availability of part-time firemen and women. In order for that service to succeed, these people need to be working in their immediate area. When there has been a succession of job losses in any particular area, there are obviously problems created. We know that as well from the Department of Social and Family Affairs. To attempt to force them to seek employment outside their area, ensuring that they cannot provide a service to the fire department in their local area, is absolutely counter-productive. Will the Minister of State please convey to the absent Minister our concerns and disappointment, and ask her to review the situation?

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will pass on Deputy Durkan's views to the line Minister. I remind him that it is great to be asked to serve at all.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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We know.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I concur with his views on the fire service and those who participate in it. Decisions on entitlement to any social welfare scheme are made by statutorily appointed deciding officers who are independent in the exercise of this function.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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No.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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Social welfare legislation provides that if a person is to be entitled to jobseeker's payment, he or she must satisfy the conditions of being available for and genuinely seeking work. Anyone who fails to satisfy these conditions on an ongoing basis is not entitled to jobseeker's payment. Unlike other jobseekers, who must sign off the live register on any day on which they find work, part-time firefighters are paid jobseeker's payment in respect of days on which they are engaged in firefighting or training. However, they are required to satisfy the statutory conditions for the receipt of jobseeker's payment. They must continue to be available for and to be genuinely seeking work. In this respect, deciding officers do not treat them differently from any other jobseeker.

In applying the legislation, deciding officers have regard to the availability of job vacancies in the locality, the age and educational qualifications of the person making the claim and his or her family circumstances. The legislation does not impose any restriction or limitation on the right of a person to engage in the employment of his or her choice. If a person is seeking work in his or her usual form of employment and there is a reasonable prospect of securing work of that nature, he or she will normally satisfy the conditions for receipt of payment. If no work is available locally, however, the jobseeker must seek employment in the surrounding areas. It may be necessary for him or her to extend his or her availability to different categories of employment rather than confine his or her availability to a particular type of work. After a period of unemployment, a person must be prepared to accept any employment for which he or she is qualified.

It is a principle of the availability for work condition that a person's unemployment must be involuntary. Furthermore, a person must not limit his or her opportunities for work by only seeking employment within a restricted distance of a fire station in which he or she may be employed as a part-time firefighter. Such action would be seen as placing an unreasonable restriction on his or her ability to secure full-time employment. A person may be regarded as not being available for work if he or she imposes unreasonable restrictions on the nature of the employment, the hours of work, the rate of pay, the duration of the employment, the location of the employment or other conditions of employment which he or she is prepared to accept. A deciding officer may impose a disallowance in a case where a person refuses an offer of suitable employment or where he or she imposes unreasonable restrictions on the location of the employment he or she is prepared to accept. Any person who is dissatisfied with a decision given by a deciding officer may appeal the decision to the independent social welfare appeals office. While the importance of retained firefighters is fully recognised, the introduction of special arrangements exempting them from the requirement to fulfil the statutory conditions for entitlement to jobseeker's payment would raise equity issues vis-À-vis other jobseekers. In applying the legislation, deciding officers do not treat part-time firefighters differently from any other person claiming jobseeker's payment.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The Minister of State knows as well as I do that deciding officers used to treat firefighters differently.

Deputies:

Thank you, Deputy.

Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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The first paragraph of the Minister of State's reply was rubbish. Deciding officers are not independent — they are under the control of the Minister who decides on the policy to be followed in this area.

John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail)
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I will convey the Deputy's views to the Minister.