Dáil debates
Tuesday, 3 February 2009
Order of Business
5:00 pm
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It is proposed to take No. 8, motion re ministerial rota for parliamentary questions; No. 9, motion re Stardust fire tragedy; and No. 10, motion re by-election for Dublin South, to be taken at 7 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 9, whichever is the later. It is proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted on the adjournment of Private Members' business which shall be No. 51, motion re energy prices, to be taken for 90 minutes at 7 p.m. or on the conclusion of No. 10, whichever is the later; No. 8 shall be decided without debate; the proceedings on No. 9 shall be brought to a conclusion at 7 p.m. and the following arrangements shall apply — the speech of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fine Gael Party and the Labour Party, who shall be called upon in that order, shall not exceed 15 minutes in each case; the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed ten minutes in each case; Members may share time and a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed five minutes; and the proceedings on No. 10 shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion after 30 minutes tonight and the speeches shall be confined to the main spokespersons for the Labour Party and the Fine Gael Party and to a Minister or Minister of State, who shall be called upon in that order, who may share their time and which shall not exceed ten minutes in each case.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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There are four proposals before the House. Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. agreed to?
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I will not be calling a vote. I made my point at 2.40 p.m. My preference would have been a change of business to allow for further discussion of the announcements made by the Taoiseach but I do not wish to delay the time of the House by calling a vote so I agree with the proposal.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is the proposal for dealing with No. 8, without debate, agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 9 agreed to? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with No. 10 agreed to? Agreed.
I call Deputy Kenny on the Order of Business.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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When is it expected the Government will announce its recapitalisation programme for the banks? Will the detail of the extent of liability to the State——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not Leaders' Questions and I cannot allow that question, unfortunately.
Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)
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It is a question on legislation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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If it is a question on legislation, I ask Deputy Kenny to tell me what legislation is concerned.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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There will have to be some legislation governing changes to the structure of the Irish banking system, as the Ceann Comhairle well knows.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Is legislation promised in this area, Tánaiste?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation is promised and the Minister is currently working on that legislation. He hopes to bring it to the House as quickly as possible.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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That does not answer my question. It is not good enough for the Tánaiste to say, "as quickly as possible". Is the Tánaiste aware that the international bond markets are looking at this country in the same way as they look at a bank and there is a serious lack of trust and confidence? The people now own Anglo Irish Bank and they need to know the extent of liability. As we speak the situation is that no Irish bank is viable without the support of Government. This is a matter of the utmost concern. Credit is not flowing to small business——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste has answered the question.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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——and for that reason I want a more accurate answer as to when the Government expects to bring the legislation to the House to give effect to recapitalisation of some of the Irish banks.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know if the Tánaiste can be of any more assistance to Deputy Kenny.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I will not mislead the House. I am not in a position to say for definite on what date this legislation will be brought before the House. The Minister is working on this matter. It will be brought before the House as quickly as possible but I am not in a position to give a definitive date as to when it will be before the House.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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She cannot do any better than that, Deputy Kenny.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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My understanding was that it was the Tánaiste's original intention to bring in the recapitalisation programme in conjunction with the announcements made today. When the Tánaiste says that the Minister for Finance is working on the legislation, are we talking about this week or next week or the week after that? Will she give the House some indication of the timeframe?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know how the Tánaiste can help with that.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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It has not been brought to Government yet so I cannot give the Deputy a definite date. It is our expectation that it will be brought forward quickly.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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I appreciate that.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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I am a little surprised at the Tánaiste's answer to Deputy Kenny because the Government's legislative programme lists the National Pensions Reserve Fund (amendment) Bill which is to give effect to the Government decision to recapitalise the banks through the National Pensions Reserve Fund and related matters concerning the National Pensions Reserve Fund. The Tánaiste has just said that the matter has not yet been brought to Government. Where is the National Pensions Reserve Fund Bill that is promised legislation and which is to allow for the use of the fund to recapitalise the banks and when will it be before the House? Will the recapitalisation of the banks require legislation other than the promised legislation in the list? I think everybody understood that the recapitalisation of the banks was something the Government was immediately engaged upon and that it was imminent and urgent business. A piece of legislation is promised to address it because we are told the funding is to come from the National Pensions Reserve Fund. Where is this Bill and when will the House see it?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The legislation has been signed off by Government today. The specific details on the recapitalisation of the banks have not been completed and until such time as they have been finalised by the Minister and his Department, we will not be in a position to say what day it will come before the House. The over-arching piece of legislation was signed off this afternoon.
Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)
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When will the National Pensions Reserve Fund Bill be published? Will that Bill be published and brought through the House before recapitalisation? I understand this is the Bill which allows the National Pensions Reserve Fund to be used for recapitalisation so it would appear logical that it would have to be enacted before recapitalisation.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy is correct in that the Bill will have to be enacted first before recapitalisation occurs. However, the specific proposals must be signed off by the Cabinet before we can finalise matters in the House.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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The Taoiseach may have answered this question already but it is a legislative matter. I assume the new pension levy will require some form of legislation and I assume it will need to be brought to the House at some stage. I ask for more information on this matter. The Tánaiste may be aware that a large number of public servants, particularly younger new entrants to the public service, have large mortgages and already pay a pension levy. Will this new pension levy be in addition to that?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is the Order of Business, not Leaders' Questions.
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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I would hate to see the Government hitting younger people so hard.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Tánaiste to reply on the legislative aspect.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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Legislation will need to be brought before the House and signed off before 1 March 2009 and it is being worked on.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I wish to ask the Tánaiste about a couple of issues. The Taoiseach in his statement describes the legislation on the pensions levy as being urgent. He suggested that one part of it will be for the general Civil Service and the other part for the local authorities. Does this mean that the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan, will be bringing in one piece of legislation and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, and the Greens will be bringing in another? The Taoiseach's statement contained a reference to a house tax which was mentioned in the budget.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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As I said, the Deputy can only ask a question on legislation.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will the levy be introduced by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley?
We have just received the Exchequer figures, as of 31 January, but no profiles of tax receipts and expenditure have been produced. Every other year the profiles have been given——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton, I cannot allow this.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——on 26 or 27 January in order that we can understand the figures. Today the Taoiseach said the drop of €900 million in tax revenue and an increase in expenditure of €600 million were in line with the profiles but we did not receive them.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy Burton will have to table a question on that matter. I call the Tánaiste on the legislative question.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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That is a breach of precedent.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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I have the dates for several years on which we received the profiles.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Deputy will have to raise the matter in some other way.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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When will we receive the expenditure profiles?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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It is in order. How are we supposed to do our business——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I am sorry, Deputy, but I will decide what is in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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——when the Government is keeping the information to itself?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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This is not in order.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Can we receive the information?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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There will be one Bill to deal with the matter.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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What Department will introduce it?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Department of Finance.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, come on. I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That matter will be dealt with in separate legislation, the local government Bill.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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Will it be introduced by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government?
Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)
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It is not a laughing matter. That is the problem with the Tánaiste. To her it is all just a big joke.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The Deputy should grow up.
Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)
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No wonder she has not got a clue.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I call Deputy Ó Caoláin.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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To cut to the chase, my curiosity has been aroused by the Taoiseach's earlier address in the statements on the crisis in the economy in which he referred to legislation to deal with pension related measures. Will the Tánaiste indicate the numbers of Bills that will be generated by the measures announced this afternoon? Rather than dignifying the house measures, will she indicate——
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is not possible on the Order of Business to say how many Bills will be needed.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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——how much legislation will be required on the back of what the Taoiseach advised the Chamber?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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It is impossible to answer such a statistical question on the Order of Business.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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I believe the Tánaiste does know.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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One Bill will be brought forward by the Department of Finance. The quip from the Labour Party was inappropriate. There will be one Bill to give effect to the measures discussed in the House. On other matters, I am not in a position to say what legislative measures will be introduced.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I must repeat the Order of Business is not Question Time. Details of the kind being sought could be not be expected of anybody. I call Deputy Durkan.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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It is either promised or threatened legislation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Deputy, come on. What is the number of Bills? The Deputy is an experienced parliamentarian and knows what I am saying.
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin (Cavan-Monaghan, Sinn Fein)
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We are more interested in the threatened legislation and what is coming down the track.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise two issues. For several months there have been numerous incidents involving explosive devices such as pipe bombs and hand grenades.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Preambles are not allowed on the Order of Business.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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There is promised legislation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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With various other indications of an increase in criminal violence, what is the Government's intention to put the criminals involved behind bars? Under which legislation is it proposed to do this?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Trawling and fishing are not allowed on the Order of Business.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I have told the Deputy 1,000 times to ask about specific legislation.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I am asking a question on legislation.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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The Stardust debate is next for which we will only have one hour and three quarters.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Will it be done under the criminal justice (forensic sampling and evidence) Bill, the criminal justice (miscellaneous provisions) Bill, the criminal justice (money laundering) Bill, the criminal procedure Bill or, perhaps, the explosives Bill?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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All the Bills mentioned, apart from the explosives Bill, will be taken this session, as I told the Deputy last week. The explosives legislation will be taken later in the year.
Enda Kenny (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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We had explosive legislation today.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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I wish to raise another issue which I am sure is close to the Ceann Comhairle's heart. In the past nine years various Ministers boasted abroad about Ireland being a high wage economy.
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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Will the Deputy ask a question?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Several Ministers have said so. After today's performance, can we presume there will be a revision and that perhaps the begging Bill will be introduced as a matter of urgency?
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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I do not know anything about the begging Bill. Does the Tánaiste?
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is promised legislation.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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The vagrancy Bill will be introduced later this year.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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Otherwise known as the begging Bill.
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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That is an inappropriate term to use.
Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)
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It is very appropriate, as the Tánaiste knows well.
James Reilly (Dublin North, Fine Gael)
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With the Minister for Health and Children sitting beside the Tánaiste, will she inform the House when the health information Bill be published?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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As it is out for consultation, I am not in a position to say when it will be before the House.
Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)
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In the light of the Taoiseach's announcement to reduce overseas development aid by €95 million, will there be an impact on the provision of the Irish diaspora endowment fund Bill to provide €10 million over five years for the various organisations involved? Does the Government still intend to meet our commitment to the millennium development goal of reaching the figure of 0.7% of gross domestic product by 2012
John O'Donoghue (Kerry South, Ceann Comhairle)
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That question would be more appropriate to the line Minister. When is the legislation due?
Mary Coughlan (Donegal South West, Fianna Fail)
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In the middle of the year.