Tom Hayes (Tipperary South, Fine Gael)
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Question 8: To ask the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs his views on the fact that the range of public services available in rural areas is in decline; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2739/09]

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The Government is committed to providing essential public services in rural areas to secure a proper environment for economic development, promote social inclusion and support dispersed, viable rural communities. To this end, the programme for Government contains a series of commitments to strengthen and underpin public service provision in rural areas across a range of Departments and agencies.

One of the challenges faced by rural communities relates to accessing services from Departments and agencies. In line with a commitment given in the programme for Government, new integrated local development companies have been established in rural areas that will enable local communities to more readily access services in regard to a wide range of schemes and programmes operated by my Department. These schemes and programmes aim to strengthen the provision of services in rural areas, regenerate rural communities and support the diversification of the rural economy. Relevant schemes include the CLÁR schemes, the community services programme, the rural development programme, the rural social scheme and the pilot rural transport night scheme.

The CLÁR programme, which aims to tackle deficits in physical, economic and social infrastructure in peripheral rural areas affected by population decline, has a pivotal role in strengthening public service provision in rural areas. CLÁR schemes cover a wide variety of developments such as housing and schools enhancement, electricity conversion, roads, water supply, sewerage schemes, and health, coastal, sports and community projects.

The community services programme is of particular relevance. This programme supports voluntary and community groups to provide essential services, which otherwise would not normally be available within local communities, such as social care, services for older persons, youth support and recycling.

The Leader element of the rural development programme 2007–13 aims to improve the quality of life in rural areas and promote the diversification of the rural economy. The new programme is being rolled out this year and a sum of €27 million has been allocated for 2009. Údarás na Gaeltachta and the Western Development Commission, which come within the ambit of my Department, also promote economic and social development in rural areas.

In addition to the above measures, the rural transport programme, which is under the aegis of the Department of Transport, seeks to address social exclusion in rural areas arising from unmet public transport needs. This scheme is complemented by the pilot rural transport night scheme, which is operated directly by my Department.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The Government has a policy of decentralisation, yet Eircom announced last week it is to remove half of its public telephone boxes. At one stage it had 8,500 and now the number has decreased to 4,500. With the next cull, there may be fewer than 2,000. Likewise, post offices are closing in rural areas throughout the State. There are currently some 1,200 in total and they are unevenly spread across the country. The Minister referred to rural transport. If it were not for the Minister and the communities themselves, there would be no transport in rural areas.

We now have a situation where one of the largest retail groups in the country, Superquinn, has had to pull out of Dundalk. In rural areas, small shops are closing because they can no longer compete with larger operators and because rural populations are declining. The Minister must seek to bring as many Government agency services as possible into rural areas. It is important that he have discussions with companies such as Eircom in this regard. It was taxpayers' money that put Eircom's infrastructure in place and it is obliged under law, as overseen by the Commission for Communications Regulation, to provide a certain element of public service. It is public service that is missing in this country. What does the Minister intend to do in this regard? Semi-State companies have a public service obligation.

The Minister has eliminated the hub towns from the Leader programme with the result that they cannot draw down any funding. This is causing a significant problem in many rural towns.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I have agreed with much of what Deputy Ring has said today. However, sometimes we make a song and dance in defending services which are not used by anybody. Some years ago, for example, Eircom announced that it was removing a public telephone box in my constituency. In response to a telephone call from a local resident, I made a representation for its retention. The Eircom representatives I dealt with were very helpful and the telephone box was kept in place. However, I must admit that I was informed at the time that the average number of calls being made from this telephone box was three per week.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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The telephone was probably broken and had not been fixed.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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No, it was working perfectly.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I am aware of a case in Mayo where it took Eircom a week to fix a telephone.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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The reality is that few people in rural areas use public telephones because most of them have a mobile telephone. From speaking to people in these areas, I am aware that this is not the service with which they are most concerned. What people are shouting about is the provision of broadband. With the announcement of the rural broadband scheme, I have no doubt that companies such as Eircom will now provide broadband at a rate of knots where they would not have done so before. The difference now is that we have engendered competition in the market. I am confident that nine out of ten people in rural areas would gladly swap a public telephone box for the availability of broadband. In the modern world, the latter is 100 times more important. People will fight for that rather than for the retention of telephone boxes which are no longer used.

Likewise, I am of the view that there is no viable future for post offices in which all the processing is still done manually and where there is a turnover of only €5,000, €10,000 or €15,000 per year. There is no livelihood to be had from such an enterprise. To oppose any consolidation in this age of the car, mobile telephone and other modern technology is to destroy the viability of the remaining post offices. There must be a balanced approach in this. We cannot defend services whose day has gone. I would much rather seek out those services whose future is coming. I have always been greatly supportive of the credit unions, for example, because they can provide a five-day or seven-day per week service.

There is no doubt that small retail businesses in rural areas are in trouble. However, there is another side to it, as the Deputy will know from his own constituency. I am sure very little passes him by in his constituency. It is significant that the first Tesco store in Ballinrobe opened recently, while another huge supermarket is being built on the other side of town by a person who previously had a smaller supermarket in the town.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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However, all the smaller shops are closing. That is Government policy.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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My attitude when I see Aldi and Lidl stores opening in Clifden, and a Tesco store opening in Ballinrobe, is that, in their absence, the people who shop there would instead travel to supermarkets in Galway and other large towns. One can view it either as the multiples coming to the people or the people going to the multiples. The reality is that most people tend to go to the multiples when they have a large quantity of purchases to make. It is a positive development that the large chains are willing to set up in rural areas and create employment. I have an opposite view to that of Deputy Ring in this regard.

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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In regard to public services in rural areas, there is a problem in the Gaeltacht area in my own constituency, where it seems we are set to lose the áisitheoir poiblí. I understand this is also happening in two other areas, Ráth Chairn and Uíbh Ráthach, and it is a damaging development. Will the Minister intervene to ensure this important public service, which comes within the remit of his Department, is retained?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I have expressed publicly my surprise at learning that these three áisitheoir poiblí positions are being removed. Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta must explain why, out of its 60 staff, this particular position is being targeted. There are no other staff in these small Gaeltachtaí but they are the first positions to go. I do not understand it.

However, we must recognise that the entire basis of partnership under the Leader programme is bottom-up development. Therefore, it is not in my position to dictate how——

Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)
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Is the difficulty that Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta's funding has been reduced? Is there another element from within the Minister's Department, such as Coiste na Gaeilge, from which these posts could be financed?

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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We cannot continue to provide additional finance to administrators simply because they inevitably make decisions to cut the post that is based in the most remote place. I understand Meitheal Forbartha na Gaeltachta has funding for some 60 jobs. It is a matter for that body to ensure it configures that staff complement so as to provide effective services to these outlying areas. If I were to do what the Deputy is proposing, I would have to take money from front line services merely to maintain the status quo. I said the day after the budget that I had a policy in my Department, under the local development social inclusion programme, Pobal and Údarás na Gaeltachta, to reduce administrative costs in order to protect front line services. I will not be deflected from that. Those who must make decisions devolved from me——

Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)
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We have gone way over time on this question but I will allow Deputy Ring to put a final supplementary question.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I hope to have time to respond to Deputy Ring's question on the hub towns.

Michael Ring (Mayo, Fine Gael)
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I disagree with the Minister's views in regard to post offices and telephone boxes. The Government's policy is to decentralise State services, yet State agencies are withdrawing services from rural areas. The Minister referred to broadband provision. The Government gave a commitment last week to roll out broadband throughout the State, with a particular emphasis on rural areas. There was uproar in my constituency because many of the rural areas there are exempt from it. I challenge the Minister to accompany me to several areas in my constituency where he will find it is impossible to get a mobile telephone signal. Eircom and O2 will not be able to deliver broadband if they cannot even deliver mobile telephone coverage. They must improve the level of their service.

There is no doubt that broadband provision is essential. The Minister is aware of a business in Blacksod where employees have to go into a corner to get a signal. I would sacrifice much for broadband. Without it, we will not attract jobs to rural areas. The Minister must work with his colleagues, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, and the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Gormley, to ensure it is rolled out. The Green Party wants birds in rural Ireland but I want people there.

Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)
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I am so much in agreement with Deputy Ring today that I am beginning to be worried. The Deputy is aware of my passion for keeping people in rural areas, I have devoted a lifetime to it. He and I see eye to eye on this issue. All I want is modern services. My point, however, is that it is not conducive to the best interests of rural areas to seek always to protect services which are no longer used by anybody.

I note the Deputy's points regarding broadband. The national broadband scheme is being rolled out. I understand that in one area of the Deputy's constituency, the maps do not cover one area where there is adequate broadband cover. I have no doubt that my colleague, the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, will look into that issue.

Deputy Ring asked me about hub towns. I had two choices in this respect, to proceed the way I did or to proceed another way based on OECD statistics on population density. The option I chose has by far the less negative impact of the two. If I had taken the other option, it would have resulted in a worse position. I had to take this option because of consideration of what is covered by the definition of rural.

If I worked in a Leader company or lived in a rural community, I do not know if I would be happy if a large proportion of the allocation for rural development was being invested in hub towns such as Castlebar, Ballina, Drogheda and so on. If the allocation is for rural development, let us ensure it is invested in real rural development, which will benefit quite sizeable towns. I am not sure whether the major county towns should be the big beneficiaries of rural development moneys.